Hello guys and gals. Does someone have pictures of hybrid red shiner X spotfin shiner or red shiner X spottail shiner that they could share? I'm not coming up with much from a google image search.
A creek near me has shiners that have characteristics of all three fish. I don't have pictures but will certainly take some next time I visit.
This is what I noticed about the fish in question:
- beefier than both pure red shiners and pure spotfin shiners in the same creek
- scales and body shape look more like spotfin shiner
- fins are red except for dorsal fin
- white tips on the tail fin
- faint black spot at the base of the tail fin (only some have this)
- black pigment between all of the dorsal rays
I haven't seen a pure spottail shiner in the creek, but it is a direct tributary of the Illinois River so they should be in there.
Red Shiner Hybrids
Started by
Guest_BenCantrell_*
, Sep 25 2013 07:08 AM
11 replies to this topic
#2
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 25 September 2013 - 07:15 AM
Ben, do you really mean spottail shiner (N. hudsonius) or so you mean blacktail shiner (C. venusta)? I mention that only because I know there are concerns about Red shiner and blacktail shiners both being invasive and hybridizing with other Cyprinella. I am not as sure about any Notropis x Cyprinella hybrids.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#3
Guest_BenCantrell_*
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Posted 25 September 2013 - 07:20 AM
I figured blacktail shiners were too far out of range. This is near the town of Henry, IL.
#4
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:02 AM
Ben, do you really mean spottail shiner (N. hudsonius) or so you mean blacktail shiner (C. venusta)? I mention that only because I know there are concerns about Red shiner and blacktail shiners both being invasive and hybridizing with other Cyprinella. I am not as sure about any Notropis x Cyprinella hybrids.
I think he's talking Cyprinella lutrensis x Cyprinella spiloptera
#5
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:13 AM
You might be right Ben, I just knew that they overlapped with Red shiner in the Mississippi and that folks seem to be worried about them hybridizing with or pushing out other natives in some locations.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#6
Guest_Rainbowrunner_*
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#7
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Posted 25 September 2013 - 09:56 AM
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#8
Guest_Rainbowrunner_*
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#9
Guest_BenCantrell_*
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Posted 25 September 2013 - 10:52 AM
Yeah, Rainbowrunner, that's the information I found as well. I see mention of red X spotfin hybrids in texts, but have not found good pictures.
#10
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:51 PM
In NC, introduced lutrensis can hybridize with satinfin (analostana) and whitefin (nivea). I've seen nivea x lutrensis (at least that's what it looked like, and we found both parent species) in the Yadkin River west of Winston-Salem. I wonder if any pyrrhomelas x lutrensis have been seen?
#12
Guest_Rainbowrunner_*
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Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:51 AM
interesting,i keep lutrensis and fieryblacks. as you likely know, in cichlids and perhaps most fish, hybridization is an act of desperation, and the fish would MUCH rather mate within thier own species. but lutrensis doesn't follow this rule very well, esp in turbidity, would i ever put the two together to find out?.....hell no. does it happen in nature as with blacktails and endangered blue shiners? my guess is not very often, if at all. Has anyone ever found a fieryblack x lutrunsis cross? Google turns up nothing, blacktail is a tuff fucid fish that can tolerate turbidity and competition for food and territory. fieryblack seems to despise turbidity and competition ,opting to move along instead. i say this because i observed fieryblacks get outcompeted of a stream by greenfins, so against lutrensis they wouldn't stand a chance, they would simply move on, not stay there and try to mate with them, i think. i know the mannerisms of both fish very well & i say not in the wild, yes in captivity. just an opinion, not gospel. grain of salt & such. I know that lutrensis is the rapist of the cyp world, squirting sperm into other specie's crevices, particulary amusing, yet disturbing. Has anyone ever caught a fieryblack x lutrensis cross? Uland's post was interesting.
Edited by Rainbowrunner, 30 September 2013 - 03:15 AM.
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