Is there a good way to do this? I currently have kitty litter clay topped with a combination of sand, gravel, and cobblestones, but the plants just don't seem to be doing as well as when I had a dirt base tank. I suppose it has to do with nutrients present in the soil that the kitty litter lacks. I want my plants to grow like weeds again, but I don't want to hurt my fishes. Ideas?
Adding Soil to Established Aquariums
Started by
Guest_Orangespotted_*
, Oct 28 2013 10:16 AM
12 replies to this topic
#2
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:33 AM
I did it once but it was almost a total tank tear down to do it. Took the fish out to a cooler for a couple days (with a sponge folder and water from the same tank they were fine). Drained most of the water put in the dirt drained more water and refilled and filtered like crazy for a week. Lots of sponges to clean every day or twice a day that first weekend.
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#3
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:34 AM
There's nothing wrong with your clay. If you don't believe me or Jamie Johnson (http://www.thekrib.c...rate-jamie.html ), try adding some Jobes fertilizer sticks.I suppose it has to do with nutrients present in the soil that the kitty litter lacks.
They're sold at Walmart for $1 for 30 spikes and are aquarium safe.
http://www.southerns...ge/10212696.jpg
If your plants show marked improvement within a few weeks then yeah, your clay was exhausted. But I doubt that's what happened; the CEC of clay is very high. My bet is that your light bulbs have aged and decayed.
#4
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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:47 AM
Michael: Sounds like a lot of work, but it might have to come down to that. Where the fishes in your cooler fishes that loved oxygen? I feel iffy putting the darters and hogsuckers I just got through stressors like that so suddenly after I received them. I feel like the shiners and sunfish will be fine, but everything else is so frighty.
Erica: But isn't it just the CEC? Clay is good at exchanging nutrients... when they are present. Perhaps my fast-growing plants used up what the clay had too quickly. The light bulb I have now is a brand spanking new T8, though the tank is taller than my previous one with different lights. To test if the lights had an impact, I used bright daylight led's on a small section of the ludwigia, and the plant growth was not markedly better or healthier looking than the non-illuminated side (actually ended up growing a thick layer of algae). That's why I am suspicious of the kitty litter. The fertilizer sticks are interesting, how long do they usually last for you? And how many did you add? I wasn't willing to add aquarium fertilizers earlier but that seems to be a cheap, easy to obtain (and not daily metered) option.
Erica: But isn't it just the CEC? Clay is good at exchanging nutrients... when they are present. Perhaps my fast-growing plants used up what the clay had too quickly. The light bulb I have now is a brand spanking new T8, though the tank is taller than my previous one with different lights. To test if the lights had an impact, I used bright daylight led's on a small section of the ludwigia, and the plant growth was not markedly better or healthier looking than the non-illuminated side (actually ended up growing a thick layer of algae). That's why I am suspicious of the kitty litter. The fertilizer sticks are interesting, how long do they usually last for you? And how many did you add? I wasn't willing to add aquarium fertilizers earlier but that seems to be a cheap, easy to obtain (and not daily metered) option.
#5
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:49 AM
- How many lumens do you have over you tank?
- How many gallons are in the tank?
- How many hours are the lights on each day?
Long periods of dim light can easily grow algae at the same time that it starves vascular plants.
Plants like 100 to 200 lumens per gallon for eight or nine hours total a day. I like to put it on for 2-3 hours in the morning before work and 5-6 hours in the evening once I get home. Timers are $12 at Walmart and make life easier.
"The fertilizer sticks are interesting, how long do they usually last for you? And how many did you add? I wasn't willing to add aquarium fertilizers earlier but that seems to be a cheap, easy to obtain (and not daily metered) option."
One stick at the base of each plant once a month. I used the one $1 box for 3 months on my 55 gallon tank. This is a good dosing regimen for people who have sand (which is pure silicon dioxide and doesn't have any nitrogen, iron, calcium, magnesium, etc), but if you start with a nutritious substrate that has a high CEC, you probably don't need them. I tested the fertilizer sticks myself on my tank to see if they changed anything. My kitty litter was two years old at the time and my water was 0 degrees of hardness so I was curious if it was exhausted. The growth didn't change after adding the fertilizer so I figured it wasn't.
If you read posts by people who have sand tanks, they often say that the tank needs to be 'established' to grow plants well. That tells you something real about mulm accumulation: mulm accumulates. A tank gets more nutritious over time, not less. Is there a plant limit? Can you have such fast plant growth that they overwhelm the rate of accumulation of minerals? Eh, it's difficult to do in a fish flake fed tank. Measure the nitrate concentration in ppm. Is it above zero? Then you're fine.
Have I exhausted a tank before? Yeah. It was one I never added fish flakes to, a sand bottomed 10 gallon with ceratophyllum in it. I had a colony of elassoma eating in-tank blackworms. In general as long as you're adding fish flakes, you're probably overwhelming the plants' removal of nutrients and are on the depositing-nutrients side of the balance.
#6
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:59 PM
I must say when I did this I was not replacing soil. Which I am not sure you ever really need to do. I was putting soil in a tank that had gravel only.
As far as fish I would worry a little about the hog sucker. Not so much about the darters. They will be ok for a couple of days. Aerate well and keep the cooler lid closed and dark. Maybe add some PVC tubes or other structure for the hog sucker to hide in.
As far as fish I would worry a little about the hog sucker. Not so much about the darters. They will be ok for a couple of days. Aerate well and keep the cooler lid closed and dark. Maybe add some PVC tubes or other structure for the hog sucker to hide in.
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#7
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:14 PM
Kaspar Horst felt that after a certain amount of time (years), the substrate would become stagnant. Hence, his method of substrate heating. I don't think a lot of people are doing this any more, but his observation about substrate depletion may have some merit. The fertilizer sticks may be the answer. I don't know - I haven't tried it.
#8
Guest_rickwrench_*
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Posted 03 November 2013 - 03:36 PM
Fastest/easiest/cheapest way to add to or replenish a burned out substrate is mud cubes. To make: mix up a batch of high nutrient dirt, add some water to make a thick mud. Then pack it into ice cube trays and freeze it. Small cubes are quite a bit easier to work with, btw. Jam the frozen mud cubes under the substrate. Being frozen, they won't muddy your tank water. They will drop the tank temp somewhat, so don't completely carpet bomb your tank in one session.
I've done this a few times with larger tanks that I didn't want to tear down and rebuild (lazy). 24" hemostats (cheapest I've found are from bluelakeproducts.com) make it a cheap, clean and easy job - my aquarium keeping mantra.
If you have a nice bacteria bonded creek sand cap on your substrate, you can really load up the tank with new substrate over the course of a few days.
If you have kitty litter, turface, or other lightweight vitrified/fired clay substrates, use fewer mud cubes and jam the cubes in deeper, as, in my experience, these lightweights don't seem to "cap" as well creek sand or other denser substrates. This is also true when using Jobe's sticks - the nutrient will leach into the water column rather quickly as the compromised bacteria colony "crust" on a kitty litter substrate seems more tenuous/fragile and takes longer to heal than in denser substrate caps.
If you have a high enough density of water column feeding plants (hygrophila, hydrocotyle, etc.) this isn't an issue, but if you have high light and primarily root feeders (crypts, swords, vals, etc.), you may end up with algae issues.
Rick
I've done this a few times with larger tanks that I didn't want to tear down and rebuild (lazy). 24" hemostats (cheapest I've found are from bluelakeproducts.com) make it a cheap, clean and easy job - my aquarium keeping mantra.
If you have a nice bacteria bonded creek sand cap on your substrate, you can really load up the tank with new substrate over the course of a few days.
If you have kitty litter, turface, or other lightweight vitrified/fired clay substrates, use fewer mud cubes and jam the cubes in deeper, as, in my experience, these lightweights don't seem to "cap" as well creek sand or other denser substrates. This is also true when using Jobe's sticks - the nutrient will leach into the water column rather quickly as the compromised bacteria colony "crust" on a kitty litter substrate seems more tenuous/fragile and takes longer to heal than in denser substrate caps.
If you have a high enough density of water column feeding plants (hygrophila, hydrocotyle, etc.) this isn't an issue, but if you have high light and primarily root feeders (crypts, swords, vals, etc.), you may end up with algae issues.
Rick
#9
Guest_Orangespotted_*
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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:29 PM
Rick: That's a great idea Rick, why didn't I think of that? 
I'll have try that one out! Was just about to do a tear-down, thanks for saving me the trouble. 
Part of the kitty litter is capped with creek sand, part is covered in cobble and riffle rocks, and a small patch is bare for dense growth, so I'll be extra careful in the exposed region.
Erica: (Lights) The light test lasted for a week and was on for 8 hours each day. I think it gave good evidence that the lights weren't the problem. The LEDs (not sure how strong but they were BRIGHT and listed as 6500 color temp) were literally right next to the Ludwigia as they were at the side of the tank, while at the opposite end another bunch of Ludwigia sat with just the T8 shining down. The algae growing on the LED Ludwigia was green spot algae, nearly becoming a solid layer by the end of the week. As for the mulm accumulation: maybe that's exactly it. I don't want to wait a few months for that to develop and nutrients to become available. I liked the instant results I got with my old dirt tank, and if I can't expect the same with the new substrate, I just as well change it to my liking. Regarding fish flakes, I'm sure they provide macronutrients well, but I'm concerned about the whole picture too. They don't provide iron, magnesium, micronutrients like rich black dirt does. And considering all of my plants were collected here or are native to the area, it would probably be best to give them the type of substrate they are used to. Also, I like when my red plants are red.
Irate: I still hear (read?) sometimes of high-tech (ie people with time and money) planted tank enthusiasts using substrate heaters. They remind me of the squiggly heating wires at the bottom of an oven.
Michael: Hmm, your pvc pipe suggestion makes me wonder if I should build some rock caves in the tank after all... Are hog suckers that much of cave-lovers? Mine just roll around poking at the substrate and hide under logs when something makes them jump. I never gave much thought to it.
Thank you for all your suggestions, time to start freezing soil it seems!
I'll have try that one out! Was just about to do a tear-down, thanks for saving me the trouble. Part of the kitty litter is capped with creek sand, part is covered in cobble and riffle rocks, and a small patch is bare for dense growth, so I'll be extra careful in the exposed region. Erica: (Lights) The light test lasted for a week and was on for 8 hours each day. I think it gave good evidence that the lights weren't the problem. The LEDs (not sure how strong but they were BRIGHT and listed as 6500 color temp) were literally right next to the Ludwigia as they were at the side of the tank, while at the opposite end another bunch of Ludwigia sat with just the T8 shining down. The algae growing on the LED Ludwigia was green spot algae, nearly becoming a solid layer by the end of the week. As for the mulm accumulation: maybe that's exactly it. I don't want to wait a few months for that to develop and nutrients to become available. I liked the instant results I got with my old dirt tank, and if I can't expect the same with the new substrate, I just as well change it to my liking. Regarding fish flakes, I'm sure they provide macronutrients well, but I'm concerned about the whole picture too. They don't provide iron, magnesium, micronutrients like rich black dirt does. And considering all of my plants were collected here or are native to the area, it would probably be best to give them the type of substrate they are used to. Also, I like when my red plants are red.
Irate: I still hear (read?) sometimes of high-tech (ie people with time and money) planted tank enthusiasts using substrate heaters. They remind me of the squiggly heating wires at the bottom of an oven.
Michael: Hmm, your pvc pipe suggestion makes me wonder if I should build some rock caves in the tank after all... Are hog suckers that much of cave-lovers? Mine just roll around poking at the substrate and hide under logs when something makes them jump. I never gave much thought to it.
Thank you for all your suggestions, time to start freezing soil it seems!
#10
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Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:20 AM
"The algae growing on the LED Ludwigia was green spot algae, nearly becoming a solid layer by the end of the week."
You probably had like 300+ lumens per gallon over it.
"I think it gave good evidence that the lights weren't the problem. The LEDs (not sure how strong but they were BRIGHT and listed as 6500 color temp)"
As I may have mentioned before, 6500 K color temperature has nothing to do with how well plants grow. It is a measurement of the 'cool' (greater than 4000 K) or 'warm' (less than 4000 K) of a light. The sellers put it on there so you know what the bulb will look like when it turns on.
http://www.terrymatt...ature-chart.jpg
http://www.seesmartl...temperature.jpg
What do plants eat? Brightness of light. Is that measured by K value? No. Color temperature has nothing to do with how well plants will grow. Brightness of light, either measured quantitatively with PAR or lumens (whatever the bulb manufacturer will tell you) is how you can tell how well a light will grow plants.
My tanks:
75 gallon tank with elassoma gilberti and dario dario. I finally got the water crystal clear yesterday, so I can say that the hygrophila difformis, ludwigia repens, myriophyllum tuberculatum red, myriophyllum pinnatum, and pellia are all doing great. yay. Substrate: two to four (sloped up in the back) inches of pure clay kitty litter. Lighting: two Walmart two bulb T8 fixtures with four 2750 lumen daylight deluxe bulbs. (147 lumens per gallon) Lights are on a timer for 2-3 hours in the morning, 5-6 in the afternoon.
75 gallon tank with xiphophorus montezumae ojo caliente tampoco and neolamprologus multifasciatus. Plants: ceratophyllum, echinodorus tenellus, lysimachia nummularia, bacopa monnieri, hydrocotyle leucocephala, myriophyllum tuberculatum red, ceratopteris thalictroides, and some sort of sword plant that I ignore. Substrate: eight inches ish of aragonite and oolite sand. Lighting, two Walmart two bulb T8 fixtures with four 2750 lumen daylight deluxe bulbs. (147 lumens per gallon) Lights are on a timer for 2-3 hours in the morning, 5-6 in the afternoon. The plants grow great.
10 gallon tank waiting to receive elassoma and dario eggs. Plant: rotala wallichii. Lighting: Clamp light with 1400 lumen compact fluorescent bulb. (140 lumens per gallon) Substrate: pure clay (kitty litter). The plant's showing a lot of new growth. Occasionally I drop some fish flakes in there for it.
55 gallon tank with poecilia reticulata and heterandria formosa (both are gold forms). Substrate: a little bit of clay, a lotta bit of mulch. Lighting: two Walmart two bulb T8 fixtures with four 2750 lumen daylight deluxe bulbs. (200 lumens per gallon) Plants: ceratophyllum, ricciocarpus natans, hydrocotyle leucocephala, marimo balls, myriophyllum tuberculatum red, myriophyllum pinnatum, rotala wallichii, utricularia gibba, hygrophila difformis.
Bucket tank. Approximately 3 gallons (three inch deep water). Fish: for-sale poecilia reticulata and heterandria formosa. Lighting: an undercabinet light I bought more than a year ago with a full spectrum bulb in it. I forget the specs on that one. Plants: ricciocarpus natans, hydrocotyle leucocephala, ceratophyllum. Substrate: none. Fertilization: none. Filter: none. Heater: yes, 10 gallon heater. I keep the water level about an inch or two above the top of the heater so it doesn't burn up.
All of my plants in all of those setups grow great. It's really not complicated. The secret is to
I feel like... you're over thinking this where it doesn't matter and underquantifying your light brightness value where it does matter. I have more than a dozen species of aquatic plants growing in a variety of pH, hardness, and substrate. Heated and unheated, filtered and unfiltered. My tanks range from 6 ish pH and 0 DH to 8 ish pH and 10+ DH. The plants have an acclimation period when switching from one tank to another, yes, but they'll grow in basically any condition. I've yet to find a species exclusive to one setup over another. I took in ten (10!) bags of plants to the fish club on Friday and everyone bid on them, because they're healthy plants. That's what I do every month; they grow quite quickly. What am I doing to have such success with my plants? Fertilizer? no. CO2? no. Special substrate? no; I've got a variety of them. Just 100 to 200 lumens per gallon of light, a fine particled substrate with a touch of nutrients, and I make sure nitrate's not 0 ppm. That's it. No algae, because the lights are on a timer for 3 hours in the morning and 5 to 6 in the afternoon. Fast growth. No effort. It's all about the light and the nitrogen.
In the past I had some plants growing very healthily in barren, pure silicon dioxide sand. Najas guadalupensis. Mighta been an outlier because I just tried it with one species, or it might mean we overemphasize the nutrient content of our substrate. I dunno. The people who grow plants just fine in sand might have an opinion on that. I think it depends on the species' root nutrient requirements, myself. Your plant, ludwigia, I have grown floating. Ludwigia repens does just fine if you snip it off and let it float for a few weeks. It grows twisted around though, as it bends to reach the light but isn't stationary, so I prefer to grow it rooted because it's easier to sell. But it'll grow just fine floating.
*shrugs* If you want super super fast growth, add CO2, but keep it under 30 ppm. If you have the desire and can keep up with the maintenance, you'll see a big difference in your growth rate. Three things plants need to eat (well, four, but they're aquatic). 1. Light. 2. Nitrogen and trace nutrients. 3. Carbon.
One of those three is the growth limiting reactant, and which one it is varies from setup to setup. If it's not light or nutrients, it's carbon. Bubble in some CO2. That will make water column nitrogen your limiting reagent, which theoretically makes the tank better for the fish, but in real life fish are easily killed by high concentrations of CO2, so practically, not adding CO2 is best for the fish. And CO2 test kits have gotten rarer these past few years. Red Sea used to sell one that would let you measure CO2 in ppm. But yeah *shrugs* if you want faster growth, add CO2. Personally it's too much work for me. Instead of having to trim all my plants once a month I've got to do it twice a month, which is annoying. But, yeah, I think it's a good idea for you, since you want to see really fast growth. Try some DIY CO2. Here's an example: http://www.plantedta...ad.php?t=290122
The best CO2 advice I can give you is to cut the air line at an angle and use pliers to pull it through the 2-liter cap so you get an air tight seal.
You probably had like 300+ lumens per gallon over it.
"I think it gave good evidence that the lights weren't the problem. The LEDs (not sure how strong but they were BRIGHT and listed as 6500 color temp)"
As I may have mentioned before, 6500 K color temperature has nothing to do with how well plants grow. It is a measurement of the 'cool' (greater than 4000 K) or 'warm' (less than 4000 K) of a light. The sellers put it on there so you know what the bulb will look like when it turns on.
http://www.terrymatt...ature-chart.jpg
http://www.seesmartl...temperature.jpg
What do plants eat? Brightness of light. Is that measured by K value? No. Color temperature has nothing to do with how well plants will grow. Brightness of light, either measured quantitatively with PAR or lumens (whatever the bulb manufacturer will tell you) is how you can tell how well a light will grow plants.
My tanks:
75 gallon tank with elassoma gilberti and dario dario. I finally got the water crystal clear yesterday, so I can say that the hygrophila difformis, ludwigia repens, myriophyllum tuberculatum red, myriophyllum pinnatum, and pellia are all doing great. yay. Substrate: two to four (sloped up in the back) inches of pure clay kitty litter. Lighting: two Walmart two bulb T8 fixtures with four 2750 lumen daylight deluxe bulbs. (147 lumens per gallon) Lights are on a timer for 2-3 hours in the morning, 5-6 in the afternoon.
75 gallon tank with xiphophorus montezumae ojo caliente tampoco and neolamprologus multifasciatus. Plants: ceratophyllum, echinodorus tenellus, lysimachia nummularia, bacopa monnieri, hydrocotyle leucocephala, myriophyllum tuberculatum red, ceratopteris thalictroides, and some sort of sword plant that I ignore. Substrate: eight inches ish of aragonite and oolite sand. Lighting, two Walmart two bulb T8 fixtures with four 2750 lumen daylight deluxe bulbs. (147 lumens per gallon) Lights are on a timer for 2-3 hours in the morning, 5-6 in the afternoon. The plants grow great.
10 gallon tank waiting to receive elassoma and dario eggs. Plant: rotala wallichii. Lighting: Clamp light with 1400 lumen compact fluorescent bulb. (140 lumens per gallon) Substrate: pure clay (kitty litter). The plant's showing a lot of new growth. Occasionally I drop some fish flakes in there for it.
55 gallon tank with poecilia reticulata and heterandria formosa (both are gold forms). Substrate: a little bit of clay, a lotta bit of mulch. Lighting: two Walmart two bulb T8 fixtures with four 2750 lumen daylight deluxe bulbs. (200 lumens per gallon) Plants: ceratophyllum, ricciocarpus natans, hydrocotyle leucocephala, marimo balls, myriophyllum tuberculatum red, myriophyllum pinnatum, rotala wallichii, utricularia gibba, hygrophila difformis.
Bucket tank. Approximately 3 gallons (three inch deep water). Fish: for-sale poecilia reticulata and heterandria formosa. Lighting: an undercabinet light I bought more than a year ago with a full spectrum bulb in it. I forget the specs on that one. Plants: ricciocarpus natans, hydrocotyle leucocephala, ceratophyllum. Substrate: none. Fertilization: none. Filter: none. Heater: yes, 10 gallon heater. I keep the water level about an inch or two above the top of the heater so it doesn't burn up.
All of my plants in all of those setups grow great. It's really not complicated. The secret is to
- Measure your lumens and get between 100 and 200 lumens per gallon.
- Put your lights on timers.
- Nutritious fine particled substrate. If you need to add Jobes fertilizer sticks once a month or let mulm accumulate, you can do that. My aragonite/oolite mixture grows crazy good plants, so there is such a thing as a nutrient rich sand.
I feel like... you're over thinking this where it doesn't matter and underquantifying your light brightness value where it does matter. I have more than a dozen species of aquatic plants growing in a variety of pH, hardness, and substrate. Heated and unheated, filtered and unfiltered. My tanks range from 6 ish pH and 0 DH to 8 ish pH and 10+ DH. The plants have an acclimation period when switching from one tank to another, yes, but they'll grow in basically any condition. I've yet to find a species exclusive to one setup over another. I took in ten (10!) bags of plants to the fish club on Friday and everyone bid on them, because they're healthy plants. That's what I do every month; they grow quite quickly. What am I doing to have such success with my plants? Fertilizer? no. CO2? no. Special substrate? no; I've got a variety of them. Just 100 to 200 lumens per gallon of light, a fine particled substrate with a touch of nutrients, and I make sure nitrate's not 0 ppm. That's it. No algae, because the lights are on a timer for 3 hours in the morning and 5 to 6 in the afternoon. Fast growth. No effort. It's all about the light and the nitrogen.
In the past I had some plants growing very healthily in barren, pure silicon dioxide sand. Najas guadalupensis. Mighta been an outlier because I just tried it with one species, or it might mean we overemphasize the nutrient content of our substrate. I dunno. The people who grow plants just fine in sand might have an opinion on that. I think it depends on the species' root nutrient requirements, myself. Your plant, ludwigia, I have grown floating. Ludwigia repens does just fine if you snip it off and let it float for a few weeks. It grows twisted around though, as it bends to reach the light but isn't stationary, so I prefer to grow it rooted because it's easier to sell. But it'll grow just fine floating.
*shrugs* If you want super super fast growth, add CO2, but keep it under 30 ppm. If you have the desire and can keep up with the maintenance, you'll see a big difference in your growth rate. Three things plants need to eat (well, four, but they're aquatic). 1. Light. 2. Nitrogen and trace nutrients. 3. Carbon.
One of those three is the growth limiting reactant, and which one it is varies from setup to setup. If it's not light or nutrients, it's carbon. Bubble in some CO2. That will make water column nitrogen your limiting reagent, which theoretically makes the tank better for the fish, but in real life fish are easily killed by high concentrations of CO2, so practically, not adding CO2 is best for the fish. And CO2 test kits have gotten rarer these past few years. Red Sea used to sell one that would let you measure CO2 in ppm. But yeah *shrugs* if you want faster growth, add CO2. Personally it's too much work for me. Instead of having to trim all my plants once a month I've got to do it twice a month, which is annoying. But, yeah, I think it's a good idea for you, since you want to see really fast growth. Try some DIY CO2. Here's an example: http://www.plantedta...ad.php?t=290122
The best CO2 advice I can give you is to cut the air line at an angle and use pliers to pull it through the 2-liter cap so you get an air tight seal.
#11
Guest_rickwrench_*
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Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:25 AM
water column feeding plants (hygrophila, hydrocotyle, etc.) --- primarily root feeders (crypts, swords, vals, etc.),
Edit: Somehow I listed vals in the primarily root feeders group...
As Erica said, most plants will adapt to substrate or water column (or both) nutrient sources. Some plants are better suited for one method over the other, but wherever the food is, they will find it. You could grow a sword, free floating, in properly fertilized water, but it would look odd.
Frozen mud cubes (often mixed with osmocote) are a well established and loooong proven method of replenishing burned out capped soil substrates. If you are going to use strictly water column dosing, read up on Tom Barr's estimative index explanation. Uncapped kitty litter substrates are "open" so nutrient sources burried in them will become available to the water column rather quickly.
Rick
#12
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Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:43 AM
I once added topsoil capped with sand to an established tank with the fish still in it. I think I posted a thread about it somewhere on here. It worked and the water didn't cloud up but I think the results have been a little better on my tanks I've started from the bottom up with a complete tear down. Here is a link to the thread. I don't know if I'd do this exactly again because I like for the top soil to be a little deeper, but you might be able to get some ideas from looking at it. Hope this helps.
http://forum.nanfa.o...anted-aquarium/
http://forum.nanfa.o...anted-aquarium/
#13
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Posted 22 November 2013 - 11:21 PM
Thanks, added three largish (the size of a small shallow plastic food storage container (so about 3" wide, 5" long, 1" thick) frozen organic potting soil mud bars last week. Haven't updated since college has been busy, but will be on the forum more this next week hopefully. The process was messy since kitty litter was surprisingly dusty still, which made me sort of sad since I went through an exhaustive process of rinsing it, adding it to the tank, changing out the clogged filter daily for a week, and gravel vacuuming every other day about 5 gallons worth of dust near the start of setup. 
Wonder if the regional clay is just different from what you guys to the southeastish have in stores.
But a positive end report! At the end of the week after adding the dirt cubes (very quickly), Ludwigia repensxarcuata growth tips are red/pink again! Potamogeton gramineus has taken on a more orange look as well, though not as clearly apparent as the Ludwigia change. Some nice new leaves have made themselves apparent on the Cardinal Plant too which was slow to grow earlier. A minor diatom bloom has since set in, but the ancient Ramshorns are making short order of it, and the blacknose dace love slurping up the scrapings when the glass is scrape-cleaned so luckily it's not really a problem. I wonder if the clay was deficient in some sort of micronutrient or maybe iron? In any case, loving the result! The kitty litter still has the good effect of imparting a muck-bottomed pond/overgrown streamlet look to the tank which is accurate for this region, but next time I'm entirely capping bare areas, not leaving them open even for plant patches just so I don't have to deal with the dust. Thank you for your suggestions!
Edit: Forgot to add - It was far too fun to make the mud pies! Even put crumbled oak leaf bits in the middle.
Wonder if the regional clay is just different from what you guys to the southeastish have in stores.But a positive end report! At the end of the week after adding the dirt cubes (very quickly), Ludwigia repensxarcuata growth tips are red/pink again! Potamogeton gramineus has taken on a more orange look as well, though not as clearly apparent as the Ludwigia change. Some nice new leaves have made themselves apparent on the Cardinal Plant too which was slow to grow earlier. A minor diatom bloom has since set in, but the ancient Ramshorns are making short order of it, and the blacknose dace love slurping up the scrapings when the glass is scrape-cleaned so luckily it's not really a problem. I wonder if the clay was deficient in some sort of micronutrient or maybe iron? In any case, loving the result! The kitty litter still has the good effect of imparting a muck-bottomed pond/overgrown streamlet look to the tank which is accurate for this region, but next time I'm entirely capping bare areas, not leaving them open even for plant patches just so I don't have to deal with the dust. Thank you for your suggestions!
Edit: Forgot to add - It was far too fun to make the mud pies! Even put crumbled oak leaf bits in the middle.
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