I am witnessing, or so it seems to me, the gradual decline in the aquarium hobby in general. I blame this on the Big Box stores. When I was a teenager there was no such thing as Petsmart or anything like that - it was all Mom and Pop pet stores. I worked for a guy who had about 10 or twelve pet stores - the one I worked in was in a strip mall, but he owned several pet departments in Zales stores too. We used to get everything under the sun: electric eels and catfish, for example. I have gone into many private pet stores over the years and found every african cichlid you can name, SEVERAL species of Polypterus, plus shovelnose cats, redtail cats, archerfish, lungfish, snakeheads, spiny eels ...the list goes on. You would buy livebearers in trios; now you can only get the males. And only if you want guppies.
What brought this on is my search for what used to be a common fish - a kuhlii loach, Oh yeah, forget about ANY kind of loach, I live near, not a huge city, but it is the capital of my state. All of the private pet stores are gone. ALL of them. Not even the reef store could make it.
I used to write the occasional article for some of the national publications. Who puts out a paper magazine anymore? TFH, maybe, I think. FAMA? nope. A&P? AFI??
Now I don't really fuss with tropicals and haven't for many years, but I started this 10-gallon tank with tropical plants and fish for my grandkids. And there's nowhere to go except PetsMart. And they only have the fish that can be raised in mass quantities by the big farms.
Now, I know there are still a few independent shops, and some of them are quite good. And the organized aquarium hobby is still going strong (ALA, AKA, etc.), so other hobbyists are a source for stuff the Big Boxes don't sell. But it is very saddening to see that for the most part, the hobby has been reduced to the very commonest sort of fare.
Does anybody else see this trend? What can be done??
Death of the aquarium hobby?
Started by
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
, Nov 02 2013 12:06 AM
19 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_FirstChAoS_*
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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:26 AM
What brought this on is my search for what used to be a common fish - a kuhlii loach, Oh yeah, forget about ANY kind of loach, I live near, not a huge city, but it is the capital of my state. All of the private pet stores are gone. ALL of them. Not even the reef store could make it.
Not where I am. Most of my life my area had one pet store, Paul's pet and Aquarium. Others (like somefin fishy) died quickly. Pauls lasted until Petco appeared. But then another appeared a couple years ago. One Stop Country Pet Supply. Originally from Brattleboro it now has a larger Keene store that is doing well BECAUSE it does not offer the generic stuff the big box store did. Now we have two pet stores thriving in my area for the first time. one a big box, one small and local.
#3
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Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:04 AM
We have no fish stores in my area...NONE. There was a small pet store about 30 miles away but it closed a few months ago. Not a place you would want to get fish anyway.
I got my striped kuhli loaches shipped to me from 2 different eBay sellers, one in California and one in Ohio. The only fish I have that weren't shipped are 3 bettas that we bought at the local Walmart (thankfully that's the only type of fish sold there, as those are bad enough!), 1 goldfish that my son won at the county fair, and 1 orangethroat darter that my son caught in our creek.
I would much rather order my fish from an experienced seller who knows what they have and how to care for them, rather than from a pet store where their only priority is making money. The eBay seller in Ohio even cancelled a sale for me when I asked to make sure that Buenos Aires tetras would be okay with paradise fish! Not a good mix, and she fixed it. Most pet stores, even the mom & pops, would have been all "sure, no problem! You want to put 10 swordtails in a 5 gallon tank with no filter? They'll be fine"
I would much rather have there be NO fish stores. At least online sellers and breeders care about customers who come back because of a good experience and not because all their fish died.
I got my striped kuhli loaches shipped to me from 2 different eBay sellers, one in California and one in Ohio. The only fish I have that weren't shipped are 3 bettas that we bought at the local Walmart (thankfully that's the only type of fish sold there, as those are bad enough!), 1 goldfish that my son won at the county fair, and 1 orangethroat darter that my son caught in our creek.
I would much rather order my fish from an experienced seller who knows what they have and how to care for them, rather than from a pet store where their only priority is making money. The eBay seller in Ohio even cancelled a sale for me when I asked to make sure that Buenos Aires tetras would be okay with paradise fish! Not a good mix, and she fixed it. Most pet stores, even the mom & pops, would have been all "sure, no problem! You want to put 10 swordtails in a 5 gallon tank with no filter? They'll be fine"
I would much rather have there be NO fish stores. At least online sellers and breeders care about customers who come back because of a good experience and not because all their fish died.
#4
Guest_EricaLyons_*
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Posted 02 November 2013 - 09:17 AM
Perhaps it is because I started and am now running a local fish club, or because I was there for the rise of aquabid, but in my opinion the fish hobby is growing and stronger than it ever was. Through aquabid and ebay, people can order fish from hobby breeders all across the country for $10 to $20 shipping. It's amazing. I got some Xiphophorus montezumae ojo caliente! This is a rare strain of the longest-sworded swordtail, collected back in the 80's, captive bred since then. NEVER sold in any pet store. Recently I found a breeder on aquabid and I bought me some. That is just one of my many experiences: I have more than 90 feedbacks on my aquabid account. What you are witnessing is the death of fish stores, sure, because the internet fish sales of rare fish have BOOMED. (boom! explosion).
As to the publications: I think there are MORE fish conversations going on now. They're just not in magazine format. I bet if you counted words, this NANFA forum has more fish conversation words on it than all the American Currents articles ever published. And pictures! It is SO much easier to share pictures online than in books. I agree, paying $100 for a color book of fish pictures don't happen as much now. Why? Look at our gallery. So many awesome pictures, and all for membership and server price! Pictures have gotten less expensive and more accessible.
If you feel a loss of contact with other fish people, do what I did: start a monthly meeting. Last night was our November meeting, our third ever. We had around 15 to 20 people show up, listen to Dr. Frank Marini, the first person in the world to document captive breeding of banggai cardinalfish, then judge a betta bowl show and share goods around in an auction (the club takes $0 of the proceeds). It was so much fun! Start a meeting with local fish keepers and you would be surprised how many there are. The facebook group has more than 800 people, who I limit to only people within theoretical driving distance. There are a lot of fish keepers. Just check out craigslist. When I moved here in 2011, craigslist was sadly lacking fish tanks. Now there are tons! People are learning and connective and selling and trading with the internet now, not just the traditional forms.
Kuhli loaches:
http://www.aquabid.c....cgi?fwcatfishl
http://www.bobstropi...uhli-loach.html
http://www.ebay.com/...0919959?lpid=82
http://www.liveaquar...e=c&cagpspn=pla
As to the publications: I think there are MORE fish conversations going on now. They're just not in magazine format. I bet if you counted words, this NANFA forum has more fish conversation words on it than all the American Currents articles ever published. And pictures! It is SO much easier to share pictures online than in books. I agree, paying $100 for a color book of fish pictures don't happen as much now. Why? Look at our gallery. So many awesome pictures, and all for membership and server price! Pictures have gotten less expensive and more accessible.
If you feel a loss of contact with other fish people, do what I did: start a monthly meeting. Last night was our November meeting, our third ever. We had around 15 to 20 people show up, listen to Dr. Frank Marini, the first person in the world to document captive breeding of banggai cardinalfish, then judge a betta bowl show and share goods around in an auction (the club takes $0 of the proceeds). It was so much fun! Start a meeting with local fish keepers and you would be surprised how many there are. The facebook group has more than 800 people, who I limit to only people within theoretical driving distance. There are a lot of fish keepers. Just check out craigslist. When I moved here in 2011, craigslist was sadly lacking fish tanks. Now there are tons! People are learning and connective and selling and trading with the internet now, not just the traditional forms.
Kuhli loaches:
http://www.aquabid.c....cgi?fwcatfishl
http://www.bobstropi...uhli-loach.html
http://www.ebay.com/...0919959?lpid=82
http://www.liveaquar...e=c&cagpspn=pla
#5
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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:12 PM
if it wasn't for the internet i wouldn't have got into the aquarium trade at all. we've never had a petstore. the closest was 200mi. away. my experience w/ keeping fish started w/ a old freezer keeping bait for ice fishing. never had the goldfish in the bowl like most kids did. mine was a bullhead i caught and kept in a kiddie pool. now i have native sunnies tank and a shrimp, snail tank w/ various species of each. my friends are amazed when they see them and i give them a description of each one. thank you internet and thanks to you all that helped me when i had questions. esp. erica who has gone above and beyond whenever i ran into a problem or had a specific question. you guys are great!
#6
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Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:27 PM
I did and still do moderate a forum run by the company that published FAMA and AFI - they had a weird scenario going on, from my experience with them both online and in print, and probably aren't representative of the hobby as a whole. Judging from their online readership, the demographic they ended up with consisted largely of the 12-16 year old age group, and I don't know why. While I thought it was awesome that so many were getting interested at such a young age, it did have a tendency to limit the interest in more in-depth or esoteric subjects and species, and there are only so many issues where you can publish articles like "why you should cycle without fish" or answer the question "my goldfish is gasping, what's wrong?" before people stop reading. Obviously, this a very broad generalization, as there were plenty of readers of all skill levels who came to that forum specifically to express their anger and frustration at ending the publication, but that's what I saw.
Statistically speaking, this hobby is growing. More people are purchasing fish and aquariums every year, by all the numbers I see. I suspect that, as with many other hobbies, that boom is dictating what is carried in many of the box stores. A huge portion of those increasing numbers are new beginners. Box stores do stock by trends, so they'll tend to cater to the beginners if that's what's dominating the market, and they won't stock something until someone can be expected to ask for it - generally after they've already done so. Repeatedly. 2 years ago, I tried finding Bolivian rams for a tropical tank and had to drive 30 miles out of my way to get them. Now that I don't want them, you can find them in every store near me in any direction. But the internet is always there for those needing more. I got my last two goldfish from Hawaii, because there weren't any worth buying around me, for the quality I was looking for. Mine are a rare enough variety that I never WOULD have been able to get these two fish from a store before, no matter what the hobby was doing. I wouldn't have known the farm itself existed until I got on the internet and started searching.
Statistically speaking, this hobby is growing. More people are purchasing fish and aquariums every year, by all the numbers I see. I suspect that, as with many other hobbies, that boom is dictating what is carried in many of the box stores. A huge portion of those increasing numbers are new beginners. Box stores do stock by trends, so they'll tend to cater to the beginners if that's what's dominating the market, and they won't stock something until someone can be expected to ask for it - generally after they've already done so. Repeatedly. 2 years ago, I tried finding Bolivian rams for a tropical tank and had to drive 30 miles out of my way to get them. Now that I don't want them, you can find them in every store near me in any direction. But the internet is always there for those needing more. I got my last two goldfish from Hawaii, because there weren't any worth buying around me, for the quality I was looking for. Mine are a rare enough variety that I never WOULD have been able to get these two fish from a store before, no matter what the hobby was doing. I wouldn't have known the farm itself existed until I got on the internet and started searching.
#7
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Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:27 PM
I tend to agree with everyone else it appears that the survival of the hobby for the dedicated hobbyist rests online. Mom and pop stores can't compete with dry good prices online, I don't think stores like Petsmart or Petco would survive either but they are able to make their money in other areas (mainly dog and cat). I also don't understand the point of stores selling only male fish. What is the point with only male endlers or carrying only male apisto agassizii?
Have to agree if you want anything that doesn't fall under bread and butter you have to look online or hope you can locate a fellow hobbyist nearby.
Have to agree if you want anything that doesn't fall under bread and butter you have to look online or hope you can locate a fellow hobbyist nearby.
#8
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Posted 02 November 2013 - 07:10 PM
This is the case in my area. I'm kind of bummed, because the day I went to get the stuff for my first native aquarium (2010), it closed.
Edited by Gavinswildlife, 02 November 2013 - 07:11 PM.
#9
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Posted 02 November 2013 - 09:56 PM
Yeah Martin things ain't like they used to be(Is that a line from an old Tom Rush song?) for old fogey's like us. I will say I think that the internet has made things alot more interesting. There are a lot more fish species available on line than when we were younger.
As far as print magazines go, I think Amazonas is a very high quality publication. I've only gotten maybe the last 6 issues, but the articles have a depth of information that I like. Unfortunetly not many articles on natives.
Harry Knaub
As far as print magazines go, I think Amazonas is a very high quality publication. I've only gotten maybe the last 6 issues, but the articles have a depth of information that I like. Unfortunetly not many articles on natives.
Harry Knaub
#10
Guest_Markart_*
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Posted 03 November 2013 - 06:31 AM
Interesting thread.
Here in the UK I would say the hobby is very healthy. I don't recall any shop closures locally at all. The large sheds are of reasonable quality and improving. Independents are two tier; we have what you chaps term 'mom and pop' stores which sell mostly to casual fishkeepers, and then we have the more specialised stores which sell to the more serious aquarists (although they would get a share of casual business too.) I would consider myself fortunate in that where I live in the North West of England, there are two or three world class stores and they are thriving. A large part of the boom over here can be put down to the current popularity of Nano tanks , the planted scene and the combination thereof.
I would say fish clubs have declined, perhaps in part due to the internet and forums etc. Mail order is normal, most of my US species were delivered for example; I would judge the species choice, in general, to be excellent. I read PFK regularly in print, a magazine which is growing and enjoy amazonas. In short I feel well catered for and see no decline in the hobby in this neck of the woods.
Here in the UK I would say the hobby is very healthy. I don't recall any shop closures locally at all. The large sheds are of reasonable quality and improving. Independents are two tier; we have what you chaps term 'mom and pop' stores which sell mostly to casual fishkeepers, and then we have the more specialised stores which sell to the more serious aquarists (although they would get a share of casual business too.) I would consider myself fortunate in that where I live in the North West of England, there are two or three world class stores and they are thriving. A large part of the boom over here can be put down to the current popularity of Nano tanks , the planted scene and the combination thereof.
I would say fish clubs have declined, perhaps in part due to the internet and forums etc. Mail order is normal, most of my US species were delivered for example; I would judge the species choice, in general, to be excellent. I read PFK regularly in print, a magazine which is growing and enjoy amazonas. In short I feel well catered for and see no decline in the hobby in this neck of the woods.
#11
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:19 AM
For retail shopping, many Americans go to the newest stores, regardless of price or selection. We have loads of abandoned store-fronts and restaurants in 10- to 30-yr-old shopping centers, supplanted by newer shopping centers. We're very much like dung beetles and flies flocking to the freshest pile of poop. We also love our national chain stores and restaurants, probably because we move all around the country so much, the familiarity of a known brand is comforting. Most Brits and Europeans seem to be less new-crazy or chain-crazy than Americans; you guys have more appreciation for old and stable (and less cheap rural land available to build new shopping centers). Serious aquarists dont care so much about the newness of a store, but the bulk of a American stores profits undoubtedly come from newbies buying whole set-ups and replacing their dead, not from long-time aquarists and breeders.
#12
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:48 PM
As far as print magazines go, I think Amazonas is a very high quality publication.
Harry Knaub
Harry, I've never heard of that one - I will check it out.
Hope to see you at the 2014 convention - I will look for the guy in the tattered baseball cap with the curved bill
#13
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:53 PM
A large part of the boom over here can be put down to the current popularity of Nano tanks , the planted scene and the combination thereof.
This appears to be nonexistent here - look at the photos on the AGA website - not many at all from America. Maybe some of you guys have LFS's with Amano or nano tanks - I dunno. Keep in mind, this is Mississippi - the poorest state in the USA. Maybe I'm not living in the real world.
#14
littlen
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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:43 AM
There certainly has been a steady and dramatic decrease in the mom and pop shops. I refuse to go to the chain retailers although I'm fortunate and have access to a wholesaler for all my live and dry good needs. I have noticed some things about the few remaining M&P's.....1) most tend to be specialty stores focusing on corals & marine tropicals. The chains can't buy corals and most of the salt water tropical fish in bulk quantities to drive the prices down and get most of the business. So those shops specializing in selling frags usually do well in an area that has a lot of folk interested in such. 2) those that carry a 'broader' selection of terrestrial and aquatic animals sadly have much of the same species that can be found in the chain retailers. These usually don't last long, especially if there is competition nearby from the chains. I agree that purchasing things online has become the new way to shop, although I haven't ordered fish that way, yet. At least, not for my personal use.
Irate--I think the Kuhlii loach is an awesome fish. One which we'll probably not see often any more. But they did used to be everywhere. (I wonder if those who are unfamiliar with this species think they are similiar to the Candiru........think about it!)
Irate--I think the Kuhlii loach is an awesome fish. One which we'll probably not see often any more. But they did used to be everywhere. (I wonder if those who are unfamiliar with this species think they are similiar to the Candiru........think about it!)
Nick L.
#15
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:09 PM
Well, folks, I'm not gonna pay shipping for one Kuhlii loach, so I guess I'm just outta luck. I think there's somebody on this forum who kept Candiru - I just can't remember who it was.
#16
Guest_Uland_*
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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:51 PM
Martin, Richard (AKA Brooklamprey) has kept various Candiru and other allied catfishes. Not sure if he managed to breed them though.
#17
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:38 PM
Richard - ah yes, that would be the guy. It's been a while since I've seen the garpike avatar.
#18
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:05 AM
Apparently he is pretty busy nowadays. Pretty sure he is running the Belle Isle aquarium in Detroit.
#19
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 08 November 2013 - 05:23 PM
I was at a local PetSmart in Huntsville, AL, last night and they had some form of kuhli loach. I asked the aquarium manager and she said, yeah, they always have them. But in truth that's only one species they have routinely.
#20
Guest_Gavinswildlife_*
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Posted 08 November 2013 - 06:17 PM
My petsmart will only carry what makes them big money. And get rid of what is acually good.
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