I'd like to be, under the stream;
in Hemitremia's garden with you...
These are the tiny fry that I bought at the convention this year, all grown up.
Thanks Bob for your work to captive breed these little gems.
Flame Chub Garden
Started by
Michael Wolfe
, Nov 07 2013 11:12 PM
13 replies to this topic
#1
Michael Wolfe
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:12 PM
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#2
Guest_Orangespotted_*
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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:52 PM
Were those things they were picking at in the algae food you put in? They are adorable, and look very content. They are certainly living up to their name of "chub" too! What a nice little home 
#3
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:20 AM
Can anybody tell me what's distinct about Hemitremia that makes it NOT a Semotilus? Flames certainly looks more like the creek, dixie, & sandhills chubs than a fallfish does. If lack of a barbel is the primary character, that's pretty weak evidence, as shown by the former "Hybopsis" complex. Notropis, Cyprinella, etc have species with and without barbels (including taxa moved out of Hybopsis).
#4
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 08 November 2013 - 05:21 PM
Differences include body size and time of spawning; flames often spawn as early as January, and are done by mid-spring at the latest. They also need much higher quality water than Semotilus. People at the Tennessee Aquarium/UT Chattanooga are doing genetics work with them, which may offer a window on any differences. The jury is out.
#5
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 08 November 2013 - 06:13 PM
Fallfish look more like Nocomis to me, but what do I know. Heck I am still stuck, with my jaw permanently dropped on the Ky. split of the spectabile complex. Heck to be honest, with a cursory look, flame chubs look more like Pimephales with color to me than they do anything else.
#6
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 26 January 2014 - 04:01 PM
Just an update and to echo what Bruce said about January activity... I went and broke some ice off the top of the pond/tank they are in today. There are full size (meaning 2 plus inches) and fat chubs swimming around actively under the ice. So after I took some of the ice (only 1 quarter of an inch think) off the top of the tank, I added some earthworm flake just to see how they would react. They reacted with greed and energy that was surprising to see at the cold temperature. And they did not all stay deep where maybe the water was warmer than the surface air temp, several also came up to the flake and grazed the surface (water that was just recently in contact with ice, so had to be in the 30s) like top minnows. And I saw at least 10 full sized fish (this tank was stocked with 15 of Bob Mullers F1s from the convention that were all pretty tiny in May).
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#7
Guest_Casper_*
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Posted 26 January 2014 - 04:21 PM
I would think that Flame Chubs, a fish that lives in springs and associated runs would require a somewhat constant temperature yet here yours are thriving under the ice. Pretty cool. I had a few years ago in the cement pond and the summer temps get into the high 70s and they did well for a couple seasons. Obviously a tough fish and handsome. I recall Ray Katula telling me they were relatively easy to spawn.
#8
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 26 January 2014 - 05:22 PM
I was invited to visit a private property that straddles the Flint River east of Huntsville 2 weeks ago and found an amazing spring that runs year-round with flames in it. Like that other big spring with flames near there, Acuff Spring (Casper knows it), the water temperature is 12-13 deg. C year-round. I think for flames their goldilocks temperature range is ~4 - 22 deg. C.
#9
Michael Wolfe
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:09 PM
Update: I emptied the flame chub garden today hoping to find young Hemitremia. But alas, I found none. There were ten adult sized fish (average TL 1.38 inches). So apparently there were a few lost to predation. I almost never feed this tank, and let it "go natural".
I also captured and measured the group that were inside in the 40 gallon breeder tub tank in the basement. There were sixteen fish in that tank (average TL 1.22 inches) that seemed to be in somewhat better color than the outside fish. This is unusual to me, but may just be due to the warmer outdoor temperatures the past couple of weeks, while the basement temps are relatively cool. These fish are smaller on average, but that is mostly because of the smaller individuals that survived indoors, whereas outdoors, there were only the ten larger ones (the average size of the ten largest ones inside was about the same as the average of the ones outside).
So it seems that I can maintain them and grow them, inside or out, but I did not get any reproduction in my pond set up (with no current) liek I was hoping. But we will see what these other individuals outside can do... or maybe what these outside fish will do when they are inside with a little current?
I also captured and measured the group that were inside in the 40 gallon breeder tub tank in the basement. There were sixteen fish in that tank (average TL 1.22 inches) that seemed to be in somewhat better color than the outside fish. This is unusual to me, but may just be due to the warmer outdoor temperatures the past couple of weeks, while the basement temps are relatively cool. These fish are smaller on average, but that is mostly because of the smaller individuals that survived indoors, whereas outdoors, there were only the ten larger ones (the average size of the ten largest ones inside was about the same as the average of the ones outside).
So it seems that I can maintain them and grow them, inside or out, but I did not get any reproduction in my pond set up (with no current) liek I was hoping. But we will see what these other individuals outside can do... or maybe what these outside fish will do when they are inside with a little current?
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#10
Guest_fundulus_*
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Posted 29 June 2014 - 02:52 PM
I think current is really important to flames. Not like a riffle, but usually we've found them in places with some steady flow.
#11
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 29 June 2014 - 04:02 PM
yeah, I just remember Kathina saying that she saw them breeding in flooded fields so I was hoping that they would spawn in the all the plant material that I had in there. I really can't do any current outside in the backyard without heating up the water to deadly levels, so I will have to try to set up some current in the inside tank and see what we can do.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#12
Guest_Kanus_*
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Posted 29 June 2014 - 06:36 PM
Great looking fish Michael! I have a few showing nice color like that but most are not. Mine seem to be chubbier overall but I haven't measured lengths. I really hope to have some success spawning them at some point as well. They are fantastic hardy little aquarium fish. I'm quite enjoying them.
#13
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 23 May 2015 - 10:00 PM
Someone asked me the other day how well the indoor fish are holding color, so I thought I would make a quick video to show what they look like on an average day in the spring...
The ones outside also look very healthy and active... but I haven't seen any small ones yet... I'm obviously not doing everything right that Derek is doing...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#14
mattknepley
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Posted 24 May 2015 - 07:52 AM
Nice lookin' fish!
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
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