Can anybody tell me approximately what the concentration of thiosulfate is in Prime? Alternately, can you tell me the quantity of solid sodium thiosulfate necessary to make tapwater immediately fish-safe (as in add chemical to partly drained tank and refill directly from hose with fish in tank)?
Water conditioner
Started by
Guest_gzeiger_*
, Dec 22 2013 08:30 PM
14 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:21 PM
There is some debate as to whether or not Prime uses merely thiosulfate. Here's a discussion guessing what the active ingredient is: http://www.reefcentr...d.php?t=1793218
Citing Jonah's Aquarium, one of our NANFA vendors,
"Dissolve the dry crystals in water and use the solution to remove chlorine/chloramine from tap water. Use one drop of the solution per gallon of tap water (or one teaspoon per 100 gallons). Water with high chlorine content may require more. You can use two drops if you're not sure about your water supply. The crystal dosages below are measured by dry weight not volume. The solution measurements are liquid volume. Make up the stock solutions following these guidelines:
Dechlor Crystals - 0.5 oz crystals - Makes 1 cup (8 oz)(236 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 2 oz crystals - Makes 1 qt (32 oz)(4 cups)(946 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 4 oz crystals - Makes 0.5 gal (64 oz)(8 cups)(1893 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 8 oz crystals - Makes 1 gal (128 oz)(16 cups)(3785 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 1 lb (16 oz) crystals - Makes 2 gal (256 oz)(32 cups)(7571 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 5 lb (80 oz) - Makes 10 gal (1280 oz)(160 cups)(37855 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 10 lb (160 oz) - Makes 20 gal (2560 oz)(320 cups)(75710 ml) stock solution"
http://www.jonahsaqu...ite/dechlor.htm
Myself, I don't use the thiosulfate crystals. I use Weco's Dechlor, which is roundabouts the same thing (same concentration of one drop per gallon, so you don't have to store an unnecessarily large bottle). The 4 oz bottle costs $4 and lasts for yeeeeeaaars.
Citing Jonah's Aquarium, one of our NANFA vendors,
"Dissolve the dry crystals in water and use the solution to remove chlorine/chloramine from tap water. Use one drop of the solution per gallon of tap water (or one teaspoon per 100 gallons). Water with high chlorine content may require more. You can use two drops if you're not sure about your water supply. The crystal dosages below are measured by dry weight not volume. The solution measurements are liquid volume. Make up the stock solutions following these guidelines:
Dechlor Crystals - 0.5 oz crystals - Makes 1 cup (8 oz)(236 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 2 oz crystals - Makes 1 qt (32 oz)(4 cups)(946 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 4 oz crystals - Makes 0.5 gal (64 oz)(8 cups)(1893 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 8 oz crystals - Makes 1 gal (128 oz)(16 cups)(3785 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 1 lb (16 oz) crystals - Makes 2 gal (256 oz)(32 cups)(7571 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 5 lb (80 oz) - Makes 10 gal (1280 oz)(160 cups)(37855 ml) stock solution
Dechlor Crystals - 10 lb (160 oz) - Makes 20 gal (2560 oz)(320 cups)(75710 ml) stock solution"
http://www.jonahsaqu...ite/dechlor.htm
Myself, I don't use the thiosulfate crystals. I use Weco's Dechlor, which is roundabouts the same thing (same concentration of one drop per gallon, so you don't have to store an unnecessarily large bottle). The 4 oz bottle costs $4 and lasts for yeeeeeaaars.
#3
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:39 AM
Thanks. I just happened to have some thiosulfate solution sitting around but no desire to determine the dosing experimentally on my fish.
#4
Guest_harryknaub_*
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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:43 AM
You know, this brings up an interesting (I hope) question and maybe if I took the time, I might find a previous thread addressing this.
As long as I have been keeping fish, I always treated my water with a thiosulfate solution in five gallon buckets before doing a water change. I do this a couple days ahead to allow any outgassing but mostly to equalize the temps between tank and buckets. I never tried adding water and then dosing. I figured that probably would be stressful to the fish. This was never a problem, since I never had any tanks larger than 30 gal.
Now that we have moved into a regular house here in Myrtle Beach, I have been threatening to convert part of the garage into a fishroom. Unfortunately, I keep running into roadblocks; contractors unwilling to run heat and AC to the garage without installing a separate system ($5,000). No inexpensive way to install drains (everything is on a concrete slab). If I ever get up the nerve to just go ahead in spite of the rules, I intend to drill the tanks for drainage and use some sort of plumbed system to add water to the tanks. I currently have three 40 gallon breeders in storage just waiting to get started.
So my question ( you knew I'd get around to this eventually) is does any one use a system similar to this and more importantly how do you treat your water for water changes?
There's something to talk about over Christmas.
Merry Christmas to all.
Harry Knaub
As long as I have been keeping fish, I always treated my water with a thiosulfate solution in five gallon buckets before doing a water change. I do this a couple days ahead to allow any outgassing but mostly to equalize the temps between tank and buckets. I never tried adding water and then dosing. I figured that probably would be stressful to the fish. This was never a problem, since I never had any tanks larger than 30 gal.
Now that we have moved into a regular house here in Myrtle Beach, I have been threatening to convert part of the garage into a fishroom. Unfortunately, I keep running into roadblocks; contractors unwilling to run heat and AC to the garage without installing a separate system ($5,000). No inexpensive way to install drains (everything is on a concrete slab). If I ever get up the nerve to just go ahead in spite of the rules, I intend to drill the tanks for drainage and use some sort of plumbed system to add water to the tanks. I currently have three 40 gallon breeders in storage just waiting to get started.
So my question ( you knew I'd get around to this eventually) is does any one use a system similar to this and more importantly how do you treat your water for water changes?
There's something to talk about over Christmas.
Merry Christmas to all.
Harry Knaub
#5
littlen
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Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:31 PM
Harry, like yourself, I would add dechlor to the 5 gal bucket when doing water changes, except I would add it at the sink once the bucket filled. I would swirl it with my arm a couple times and then add it to the tank. I used the inexpensive, "finger thermometer" to ensure the temps were close. I would do upwards of 50% w/c on 75 gals. from time to time and saw no problems. South American mixed tetra (& corys, oddballs, etc) handled various temp swings with no problem. I would imagine our hardy natives could handle it all the same. As you know large rain events cool ponds, streams, or whathaveyou--so I try to be on the cooler side when refilling.
On a related note, my family used to have a ~500 gal. koi pond. In the heat of summer nearly an inch or more could evaporate a day (*had a waterfall feature that added to it). Multiply that times a week and we're looking at some serious water loss. We would just toss in the garden hose and refill. We would add dechlor most of the time (especially if replacing several inches), but only after it was topped off. Now carp are very hardy compared to other families of fish so I wasn't too amazed. It did show me that low levels of chlorine were tolerable and not fatal. Although I'm willing to test that on dollar store koi over shiners and daters any day.
On a related note, my family used to have a ~500 gal. koi pond. In the heat of summer nearly an inch or more could evaporate a day (*had a waterfall feature that added to it). Multiply that times a week and we're looking at some serious water loss. We would just toss in the garden hose and refill. We would add dechlor most of the time (especially if replacing several inches), but only after it was topped off. Now carp are very hardy compared to other families of fish so I wasn't too amazed. It did show me that low levels of chlorine were tolerable and not fatal. Although I'm willing to test that on dollar store koi over shiners and daters any day.
Nick L.
#6
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 23 December 2013 - 04:07 PM
I have always added a double dose of dechlor directly to the tank, and ran tapwater straight in with a hose. Never a problem. I don't think you can hurt established natives with water that is cooler than tank water, just don't go warmer.
It takes a lot of sodium thiosulfate to harm fish. Follow the recipes from Jonahs, and you wont hurt a thing.
It takes a lot of sodium thiosulfate to harm fish. Follow the recipes from Jonahs, and you wont hurt a thing.
#7
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 23 December 2013 - 05:10 PM
Harry, I always dump the prime in and fill the tank on top of that from the python. In my 75 gallon (which is in the house proper), like Matt says, the fish just like the cold water coming out of the hose.
In my basement tanks, I have a sump that connects these four tanks.
IMGP0101.JPG 119.23KB
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I drain water from the tanks, and refill via the sump with a capful of prime and then just a yard hose refilling the sump.
In my basement tanks, I have a sump that connects these four tanks.
IMGP0101.JPG 119.23KB
0 downloadsI drain water from the tanks, and refill via the sump with a capful of prime and then just a yard hose refilling the sump.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#8
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:43 PM
That's what I've always done - add Prime to the tank immediately before filling with a hose. Buckets just aren't practical for more than 20-30 gallons at a time.
#9
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:18 PM
This reminds me of the old Murphy's Law book: "A parameter will be given in the least useful terms. Velocity, for example, will be expressed in furlongs per fortnight."
Now to work out what the given recipe in ounces per gallon works out to in my stock solution, whose concentration is conveniently reported in terms of normality
Not hard, but tedious, annoying and unnecessary.
Now to work out what the given recipe in ounces per gallon works out to in my stock solution, whose concentration is conveniently reported in terms of normality
Not hard, but tedious, annoying and unnecessary.
#10
Guest_Doug_Dame_*
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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:32 AM
So my question ( you knew I'd get around to this eventually) is does any one use a system similar to this and more importantly how do you treat your water for water changes?
I have two "GE whole house filters" installed in series on the PVC water supply to the fishroom. They cost $20 to $40 each, depending on model. And they are often available used at Habitat For Humanity thrift shops.
The disposable filters come in several levels. At the approx $10 level, they take out chlorine (and, I'm pretty sure, chloramines, but my town's water system does not use that.) The supply-side filter is doing the heavy work. At three months, I toss it, and move the 2nd one up front, and put a new one in as the backstop. I could probably use them much longer if I wanted to bother measuring residual chlorine on a weekly basis, but I don't.
With this set-up, I can go directly from hose to tank, as long as I give some consideration to the temperature of the incoming water compared to ambient temps in the tanks. Usually I don't even give the temp differences a thought unless I'm replacing more than 1/4 of a tank's water.
This is a *MAJOR QUALITY OF LIFE* fishroom enhancement. The hose is permanently attached to a faucet; I need water in a tank, I shoot it in. (The hose is from the RV section of my local superstore, and is NSF-rated for drinking water; don't use common garden hoses that are usually treated with mildew inhibitors and other chemicals.)
Obviously this only works exactly like this when one is raising fish that tolerate the hardness etc of one's normal city (or well) water supply. When I get an RO unit to dilute my liquid rock, I'll need to do things a bit differently.
There are two things I would do differently on the installation. Hard-learned lesson here, pay attention. It sometimes takes a fair amount of twist to loosen the caps on the filter canisters. PVC is brittle. I once put on too much twist, and broke the PVC pipe. And at the time, there was no cutoff value between that point and the water meter/city connection. El whoops !!! So a cutoff valve on the water-supply side is important. And if it's possible to use piping that can stand some flexing, that would be good.
HTH
#11
Guest_harryknaub_*
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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:56 PM
Thank You everyone. That is helpful. I always did it one and was not sure about doing it differently. I guess the trick will be calculating how much water is taken out during the water change so I have a good idea of how much thiosulfate to add to the tank before I add water. This will depend on what on whatever system I concoct for draining the tanks. I also hope to incorporate Matten filters in these tanks. Now, I just need to figure out where to drain the water.....
Harry Knaub
Harry Knaub
#12
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:58 AM
As mentioned above, the fish won't be harmed by thiosulfate at the doses we're talking about. My practice had always been to add enough to treat the whole tank volume before adding chlorinated water. That ensures you have enough concentration to remove it fast enough to minimize the effect on fragile gills.
I was just concerned with being sure I was above the minimum. I wouldn't worry about measuring exactly how much water is being replaced.
I was just concerned with being sure I was above the minimum. I wouldn't worry about measuring exactly how much water is being replaced.
#13
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 04 January 2014 - 12:36 AM
I have a 55 gal. drum which I use to replenish my tank(s) when I do water changes - I believe in old-fashioned aged water. Granted, in my current humble abode I don't have a lot of room for fish, but I can buy drums for $8 or so. I did some crude plumbing in order to make the system work.
#14
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:18 AM
That is the best way if the logistics work out. I use more water than that at a time, but I asked this question in order to leave instructions for my parents, so a drum in the living room isn't really an option 
#15
Guest_jetajockey_*
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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:43 AM
I'm like most of the other people, I just dump some thiosulfate solution (in some cases straight crystals in a sump) in the tanks after the water has drained, then refill straight from the tap. Sodium thiosfulate is by far the most economical way to dechlor, although if you are just dealing with a relatively small setup then it doesn't matter all that much.
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