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auritus and gibbosus update


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#1 Guest_Heather_*

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:18 AM

After two months in the 180g, I removed the two adult male red breast auritus and relocated them into a 75g time out tank... LOL. Total there were 2m:3f pumpkinseeds (gibbosus) and believed to be 2m:3f red breasteds (auritus) along with two perch. Not only are pumpkinseeds (in my experience at least) less aggressive than bluegills, they are FAR less aggressive than red breasteds which I might put at the top of the list of those 3 in terms of aggressiveness. The pumpkinseeds were much quicker to acclimate and had the upper hand initially, but once the red breasteds settled in... they really took over.

The poor pumpkinseeds were constantly taking hits and being chased in the 180g, and even in an unheated room temp tank. Both male pumpkinseeds are the largest in the tank.... you'd never know it. I eventually had to install 3 sight breaks just to give the two red breast males some defined territories and some neutral ground in the middle... but even VERY thickly "planted" silk tall plants and large granite rocks didn't give the pumpkinseeds much quality of life - mostly the males. Trying a bare tank helped a little bit... but not much. So four days ago I removed the two male auritus and to my surprise they have been great to each other in their new bare 75g (PFS only). I plugged in the 180g's heater to see if I could encourage the pumpkinseed males to recoup a bit of their pride and of course within 24 hours they had... now digging away again and strutting their stuff.

What prompted me to post was the surpise that the largest female red breast is giving those pumpkinseed males a run for their money almost but not quite holding her own. I can't say I'm 100% certain but between venting, tubing, coloration and behavior I'm pretty sure it is a female.... just amazing how much more aggressive these auritus are.

By summer I hope to get a new pump for the sump in my 210g, more of everybody, and move all the auritus in there where they can all chase themselves silly LOL... for now hopefully the boys continue to behave in time out. If their alpha female counterpart doesn't shape up they may have some company before then.

I know for sure this combo has worked for others and I don't think the pumpkinseeds would have gotten killed but I just prefer the pumpkinseeds to be dominant. I love them more, I can't help it :wub:

In case anyone is wondering I couldn't ask for better tankmates than the perch... they get along perfectly with everyone and have really grown on me.
Just thought I'd share!

#2 littlen

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:08 AM

Heather, sounds like you have some interesting dynamics going on in your tank. If you ask a lot of the centrarchid folks their opinion on aggression levels between the various species, you'll likely find as many answers as their are species. (Although certain species usually end up being towards one end of the spectrum or the other....aka you'll rarely hear someone say that Dollars are the most peaceful!) Every environment/tank/situation/individual fish will be different. In my experience, the Redears were very passive, and the Redbreast ran the tank. In another tank, the P-seeds ruled over the Bluegill. Both of these systems were stocked well, but the largest males were still able to establish a territory/nest site.

I also agree that perch (Yellow and/or White) make excellent tankmates! Very passive and have little to no interaction with the sunnies. With a tank as large as yours, you may enjoy a Bullhead in there too!

Do you have any or did you already post pictures of your 180?
Nick L.

#3 Guest_Heather_*

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:06 PM

Really white perch as well? I've seen some pretty good sized whites snorkeling and they don't seem much at all like the yellows.... not nearly as laid back for example. I could swim with and through a school of yellows without them caring in various lakes and ponds, never have been able to get close at all to the whites. That must be an interesting combo!! Any pics of this?

Thought about adding a bully but decided against it since they're so darn ravenous and fast growing... I have some juvies that I would worry about in there too.

I haven't posted any pics of my 180 since I've stocked it with natives. I'll see if I can get some tonight Nick, thanks for the reply :biggrin:

#4 littlen

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:26 AM

Oh yes! White perch make great dither fish IMO. A small school of them really adds a lot of movement in the tank as they'll move throughout the water column and swim back and forth all day. And like the Yellow's, no one pays them any mind. I had 2 Brown bulls living with them (and Bluegill) with no issues whatsoever. The bulls were very placid and did their job cleaning the bottom after every feeding. (You can see one of cat's head in one of the pics).


White perch (4)
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Nick L.

#5 Guest_Heather_*

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:38 PM

Thanks for posting those Nick! Do the bulls come out after feeding or are they strictly nocturnal? Now you have me thinking.... I looked through those pics and I would love some whites as well. Did you collect them all yourself? If so, how? How big is your tank?

It was quite comical last night, I went to get my trusty manual focus camera... only to find the battery was dead. The hours of anticipation builded as the battery charged, and then... when I went to use it, the card was full. I went to download the sd card and erase it, popped it back into the camera.... now the card was "unreadable". Doh. Having no other SD cards that would fit into this particular camera, I resorted to my phone pics... and they came out terrible Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
Sooo I will have to go find a new SD card so I can post pics eventually... LOL

#6 Guest_Heather_*

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:28 PM

After tonight's water change, I couldn't believe the female red breast was chasing the male pumpkinseeds around in addition to everyone else. Really making life difficult for everyone in there. So, she has now joined her boys in the 75g bare time out tank.

Ironically she is the only no-flash pic that came remotely close to coming out from last night... so I'll at least post that one. The leaves are almond leaves. Again taken last night before she was moved out of the 180g.

The 180g is starting to look empty! #-o

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#7 littlen

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:04 AM

If there is no food in the tank (2,000g) then the bulls usually stay under cover. As soon as the first piece of food (night crawler, red wiggler, chopped smelt/shrimp, or any number of pellets) hits the water, they start vacuuming the bottom out in the open with no fear. Those guys were probably ~10".

Seining for juvenile white perch is the easiest. They are a schooling fish so you'll get plenty in one pass. You may need to start bigger, but 2-3" inchers are ideal. Or if you only need a few, you can just as easily hook'n'line them off a dock. Not sure if they are commonly stocked up your way. They're usually not hard to come by.

IMO, I would rearrange the decor in your 180, and add all the fish back---in addition to adding a few more. My reason being to "dissipate, not alleviate" the aggression. Your tank is big enough, and a few tattered fins here and there isn't as bad as it seems. Sometimes it takes a good ***-whooping between your fish for the loser to bow to the victor. They'll sulk for a while as their fins (and maybe a few scales) regenerate, but after that it should be fine. *Of course you'll have to watch to make sure the victor doesn't keep at it, which could certainly lead the death of the submissive fish. But that's why I recommend adding more sunnies (or other species) to give the dominant fish others to chase. I never really saw any Bluegill/Redbreast/Redear or even P-seeds keep at it with one another long enough to do any severe damage. Just my experience and the dynamics of my particular set up.

Good luck.
Nick L.




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