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Creating a Dual Water Level Tank

Started by Guest_Yeahson421_* , Jan 23 2014 11:03 PM

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15 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 11:03 PM

Hello all, I'm going to be replacing my 125 with 2 36" long acrylic tanks. I want them to be connected via a small falls, but I'm not sure how to maintain a lower water level in the second tank. I want to keep my filtration as a closed loop system. Any suggestions or ideas?

tank drawing.png 178.42KB 6 downloads

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#2 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:17 AM

Not sure if you can do it unless you narrow the width of the falls section. You need your pump to pump faster than the flow over the falls. If you make the barrier high an then only cut out a smaller section you might could experiment with it and get it to maintain the difference.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#3 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:02 AM

Easiest way is to set the two tanks on stands of different heights. Or you can drill a hole for a bulkhead at the desired water level in the second tank and have it act as a sump.

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#4 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:21 AM

Unfortunately I have to put them on a stand that fits both level. And Subrosa, what you're saying is have the bulkhead flow down to a sump?

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#5 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:19 AM

Lets take a step back... these are two separate tanks... how are you going to get the water from one to the other?

I think one way is to drill both tanks and connect them with bulkhead fittings and a short piece of PVC, right? I think that might be what subrosa was thinking. If you do that, then I would suggest that you put a valve on that short piece of PVC (I know that will make the separation a little larger). Then you could control the flow rate into the second tank... that controlled flow rate would be the way that you would keep the water level in the first tank higher and the second one lower. That is similar to my comment above that you need to allow only a small section of overflow (otherwise they will just both even out at the level of the connection/bulkhead.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#6 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:21 AM

just to be clear, I assume the purple stuff in your drawing is some sort of filter and pvc "closed loop" plumbing?

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#7 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:40 AM

It's really easy to get two water levels in a tank. Make the lip of the upper tank above the water level of the bottom tank. Then the only way to get water to flow from the upper tank to the bottom tank is to use a pump. The pump removes water from the bottom tank and pours it into the top tank. Make the pump's water collection site on the bottom tank only an inch or so below the water level, that way if the pump fails the lower tank won't empty on your floor.

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These videos explain how to build that.

Video on how to build the overflow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65yVr7DiDls

Video on how to build a wall in between regions if you've got one big tank. If you really want to use your two 36 gallon tanks, you can drill a hole in the top inch or so of the left most one, maybe put a pvc tube in the hole to bridge the distance between tanks. Drilling tanks is another saltwater specialty, you'll be able to find lots of how-to guides online.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH_YljN-bMk

This is very common practice for saltwater aquarists, and is one of the reasons why I think saltwater and freshwater people should talk to one another more. Freshwater people tend to be the only ones I see culturing live foods like grindal worms and microworms, and saltwater people have a mastery of pumps and sumps. Better communication between the two groups would benefit both.

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#8 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 11:34 AM

I'm guessing your intent here is for small fish like darters and dace to be able to jump the waterfall from tank to tank, so you want it more like a hang-on-back filter chute than a vertical drop or a pipe, correct?

just to be clear, I assume the purple stuff in your drawing is some sort of filter and pvc "closed loop" plumbing?

Thanks for asking that question Michael. I thought it was two boat bumpers and a soda can.

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#9 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 12:03 PM

I'm guessing your intent here is for small fish like darters and dace to be able to jump the waterfall from tank to tank, so you want it more like a hang-on-back filter chute than a vertical drop or a pipe, correct?

That would be a really, really cool aquarium. I don't have any artistic talent, but this person did and beautifully disguised their waterfall outflow:
http://youtu.be/Rgh9jXme6OE
and then make the outflow diagonal instead of vertical. I can just imagine shiners jumping it. Hmm, actually, it might not be a bad idea to put on some acrylic side shields so they only jump up the waterfall, not out of the tank.

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#10 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:03 PM

Wow. The feedback has been incredible. So, these are acrylic aquariums, meaning I can them and proceed to glue them together. I was originally planning on having the upper tank being shiners and darters and having the lower tank a predator tank by putting mesh in the waterfall, but the idea of fish traveling between the two is far too appealing to go through with that. My only concern now is with how I will plumb it. I want to drill through the bottom, so I'd have to do a standpipe a bit under my intended water level, but I'm worroed about it sucking air with too much evaporation.

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#11 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:41 PM

I want to drill through the bottom

The bottom glass of the tank? Or within a few inches of the bottom of one of the vertical glass walls? I recommend against doing either. You never want to be in a situation where if your pump fails, gravity pulls water out of your fish tank onto the floor. Please take a look at the UaruJoey overflow video. He demonstrates what happens if his pump fails: water movement stops. But at no point could an electricity or pump failure soak his floor. Also, his PVC overflow only costs $10 to make. You'll lose more than $10 in resale value if you drill your tank.

If you really want to use your two 36 gallon tanks, you can drill a hole in the top inch or so of the left most one, maybe put a pvc tube in the hole to bridge the distance between tanks. Drilling tanks is another saltwater specialty, you'll be able to find lots of how-to guides online.

I've changed my mind, I'm removing all drilling from my suggestions because I don't think you're interpreting it like I'm meaning it. A clear pipe with side-of-tank hang-ons similar to Uaruojoey's overflow could connect the two tanks with no need for drilling. If you use a clear tube, you can probably see fish swim up it. They make clear flexible tubing.

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Use that to connect the water level between your two tanks (like the overflow Uarujoey built, but he used opaque PVC) and I bet you'll see fish swim up it. It's not a waterfall, no, but it'd move water from the top tank to the bottom tank without you needing to drill anything. The top tank is above the bottom tank, so gravity will do your work for you. It's the same principle as a gravel siphon. You just want to measure and make sure the lowest point of the tube below the waterline of the top tank is not far enough to fill the bottom tank up higher than its walls, should the electricity go out and the pump fail.

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There are people who do this method but without the water flow. I think they called it a fish highway. It's nice 'cause the tanks don't have to be next to one another.
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http://list25.com/th...s-in-the-world/

No drilling necessary to link the tanks.

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#12 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:46 PM

Erica, I think you mis-understand the concept of a standpipe... this will absolutely prevent any "draining of the whole tank onto the floor"... the hole is in teh bottom of the tank, but there is a bulkhead fitting and a vertical piece of PVC that controls the depth of the water in the tank... it is very convenient and adjustible...

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#13 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:00 PM

Erica, I think you mis-understand the concept of a standpipe... this will absolutely prevent any "draining of the whole tank onto the floor"... the hole is in teh bottom of the tank, but there is a bulkhead fitting and a vertical piece of PVC that controls the depth of the water in the tank... it is very convenient and adjustible...

Oh okay. I don't know what a standpipe is. Maybe if there was a diagram it'd make sense, 'cause yeah, I'm not familiar with that one.

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#14 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:01 PM

Acrylic tanks are pretty easy to drill, and to glue a patch over the hole later if you don't want it. Either bottom standpipe or side-wall drain should work OK, but yes make sure the bulkhead & standpipe or whatever is securely attached if it's at or near the bottom !!! There are various plans for gurgle-free standpipes on the internet and youtube. I agree with Erica that a sump like coral reefers use would be helpful for making water-level maintenance much easier. Without it you'll need to be adding small amounts of water frequently to make up for evaporation, to keep your pump from running dry. A 10-gal tank or rubbermaid tub on the floor would work.

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#15 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:12 PM

A 10-gal tank or rubbermaid tub on the floor would work.

*nods, agreeing* I've seen people hide it in their tank stand. If you put a light in the stand, you can grow plants and remove nitrogen from the main tank's water, which I think is brilliant.

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http://www.breakspir...-aquarium-part2

Imagine if instead of sponges, they had an $8 clamp light, a $5 2000 lumen full spectrum compact fluorescent bulb, and some hornwort. The main tank would have dramatically reduced nitrate. With a sump tank packed with hornwort, it might not accumulate at all.

It's too bad the saltwater people and freshwater people don't talk more. I bet if I annoyed them about how much nitrate plants can suck up, they'd let that macroalgae take up more space in their sump.
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Nice page with instructions: http://www.melevsree...55g/55sump.html
They demonstrate how they built a tank with different water levels, that one there in the stand under their main tank.

Why plants are so useful: http://www.theaquari...ical_Filtration

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#16 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:11 PM

I'm very familiar with the freshwater refugium concept, the problem is that I want plants in the display, so a freshwater refugium would pull the nutrients away from my display tank plants. A closed sytem has no problems with power outages, fortunately. I definitely don't want to use tubing as the connection between the tanks or over the back for plumbing, I want a natural look. If I can't set up an auto top off system, I may have to use a sump of some sort. Thanks a ton for your input, everyone!