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New project opinions needed.


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#1 Guest_cjohns_*

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:13 PM

I'm currently in the process of buying a used planted aquarium offline for $450. My plan is to convert it to a stream/community tank. I dont plan to us the co2 setup or light that it comes with it because im not going to have that many plants. I was going to buy a lighted hood instead. I was just wondering if this is still a good deal for the tank,stand and filters or should I go a different route all together? The aquarium is a non drilled 90g aqueon. Here is the description they gave.

I have a 90g hi tech planted aquarium. Everything is less than 9 months old. Setup includes: 90g glass aquarium, black wooden stand,4ft t5ho light (216 watts), heater, 2 fluval 405 canister filters. Also, an auto co2 injection setup, which includes; a 15lb co2 tank, co2 regulator, bubble count, solenoid, needle valve, and diy diffuser. Will not separate. Tank is currently up and running.

Edited by cjohns, 12 February 2014 - 06:18 PM.


#2 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:43 PM

I would personally not pay $450 for 90 gallons. I counted it up just now and I paid $330 for my 150 gallon setup include two 75 gallon tanks on a stand one on top the other, stand, substrate, filters, lights, and bulbs.

Two 75 gallon tanks and stand: $150 craigslist
Substrate: pure clay kitty litter, $4 for 25 pounds at Walmart. You can also use gravel, $4 for 50 pounds.
Lights: $10 per four foot long 32 watt two bulb T8 fixture, Walmart. I put two of those over each tank for a total of four bulbs per tank. If your tank wasn't planted, you'd only need one fixture over a tank. Bulbs are $5 for two or <$40 for a box of ten daylight deluxe bulbs from Home Depot.

I don't see the point of canister filters. If ammonia and nitrite are 0 ppm, then you have enough beneficial bacteria. Adding more surface area for them to colonize won't reduce your nitrate. Nitrate is the thing that makes most people do water change.

I mean, the end product of bacterial filtration is nitrate. Nitrosomonas bacteria convert ammonia to nitrite, and nitrospira or nitrobacter convert nitrite to nitrate. If there's not enough colonizable surface area for them to live on, there will be ammonia. But if you don't have ammonia in your tank, there is enough surface area for the bacteria to breed to a high enough population to convert amomonia to nitrite and then nitrate as soon as the ammonia is generated. Increasing the surface area won't make more bacteria live there because the food is the thing limiting their population at that point. So I never understood canister filters; they're more expensive than hang on the back filters, and my hang on the back filters have never not had enough surface area to make ammonia always 0 ppm after the first 40 days.

I do use special sponges though. They're $2 paradiso synthetic sea sponges.


You know what does make for less frequent water changes? Plants. I use plants to eat the ammonium and nitrate a little. Because plants remove nitrogen from the water column, trimming and removing plants is the same thing as doing a water change. That is effective. Canister filters? Meh. Not a fan. Even my unplanted tanks (do I have any? yeah, I used to) never had measurable ammonia. So what's the point of paying more for a canister filter when they do the same thing (provide a home for enough bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate)?

To go back to the original questions, I don't think $450 is a good price for you. A lot of what you're paying for is CO2 equipment cost and T5HO cost, neither of which you'll be using because you said you won't have lots of plants. And by the way I don't use CO2 or T5HO and I grow lots of plants, so really they're just a thing you sink money into with no benefit. Like the canister filter.

#3 Guest_cjohns_*

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:57 PM

Thanks I'm going to keep looking. I think a buddy of mine will buy the light form me for around 50$ but that still puts me at $400 with co2 equiment that will be hard to sell.

#4 Guest_cjohns_*

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:57 PM

Update $350 for everything but the co2 and light.

#5 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 10:02 PM

So $350 for a 90 gallon tank, its stand, and two canister filters? There is no way I'd pay that. I mean, I told you that I paid $330 for two 75 gallon tanks, their stand, substrate, lights, and filters? That's more gallons for less money, including lights. I've never browsed the craigslist in Kentucky, but in North Carolina if you hang out on it long enough, you can pay a dollar a gallon for just tank and stand. The lights and substrate and filters are cheap. No reason to pay more for them 'cause you're buying them all in a package.

My Dad has a saying. You've got three things to think about when buying things:
cheap
fast
quality
He says that in general you're only gonna get two of those things. If you want it inexpensive and fast, it's not gonna be good quality. If you want it now and high quality, it's gonna be expensive. I waited around a month to find the $150 for 150 gallons and stand deal.

Edit:
Of course, I mean, if you've got the money, buy it new. You sacrifice time and labor buying used. Buffing out all the scratches, resealing it if it leaks. For my fish tank (which is just a hobby for me anyway, something I enjoy spending time building), I was willing to put in that labor time and buy it used. But I think if I owned a car, I'd buy it new. You either make new-car payments or repair payments, Dad says. Certain items it's worth buying new.

#6 Guest_cjohns_*

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 10:43 PM

I'm sure there will be better deals out there. I'm just ready to start another tank. My 36 gallow bow front is getting a little harder to maintain now that my fish are growing. It's a aqueon with a aqueon quiet flow filter and the filters are not lasting very long. There filters are High$$$!

#7 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 11:01 PM

Why would a filter cost money after it's initially purchased? I bought my hang on back filters for $40 to $60 each and put one to three paradiso synthetic sea sponges in them and haven't spent any money on them since. I guess they do use electricity. But I'm confused what you mean.

#8 Guest_cjohns_*

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:52 AM

The aqueon replacement filter cartridges are close to $4 a piece and dont last long. Its just the filter that came with the aquarim.

http://www.petsmart....NotAvailInUS/No

#9 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:01 AM

One other thing to consider (maybe a different version of the quality factor that Erica mentioned). I would pay more for a very nice looking stand depending on where you are putting the tank. I mean, some of us have a significant other that would not tolerate cinder blocks and 2 x 6 for an aquarium stand in the house... or even a nice metal stand. So if this "bundle" that you are looking at has a nice "furniture" style cabinet stand and hood, then it might be worth it. But more for the stand than just he tank. And most canisters can be filled with different media... one of their advantages is the ability to have a relatively large volume for you to put stuff in there, that you want to expose your tank water to.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#10 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:45 AM

The aqueon replacement filter cartridges are close to $4 a piece and dont last long. Its just the filter that came with the aquarim.

http://www.petsmart....NotAvailInUS/No

Hmm, yeah, I don't use those. Like I said, I use paradiso synthetic sea sponges and once every few weeks I wring half of them out in the sink, leaving one in the filter box so I don't uncycle the tank. They don't degrade or run out over time. If I need activated carbon, I bought a lot of it in bulk for like $12 and put some in an old garlic mesh sock in the filter. But I don't use activated carbon unless I'm removing a medication from the water after dosing with something, which happens like once a year. If you've got driftwood, it is useful for removing tannins to make the water clear for aesthetic reasons. I think Seachem has a product called purigen that is like a renewable activated carbon, but I've never bought it myself. I would look into it if I was using activated carbon every few weeks.

There are three purposes to having a filter:
1) Water flow
2) To provide a home (a high surface area place) for beneficial bacteria to colonize.
3) Mechanical filtration, to remove tiny debris from the water.

My filter uses the sponges as the high surface area place that houses the beneficial bacteria. The sponges also are a good grit and dust trap. When I wring two of them out and leave the third one alone (rotating which one gets left alone each time), I'm removing grit and dust without destroying my population of bacteria. The sponges were $2 and don't degrade over time, so it's a one time purchase that doesn't have a maintenance upkeep cost. I've been using the same sponges for years. By the way, my two filter brands are aqueon and aquaclear at the moment. The aqueon did come with those things you linked to, but I just threw them out and used my sponges. I callously ignored their instructions to continue to pay them $4 a month for the rest of my life.

#11 Guest_kirbylfth_*

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:50 AM

definitely should keep looking, my dad just scored a 90 for 200 came with everything but the water and fish, its a marine land setup with 2 huge marine
land hobs and a really nice cabinet style stand. check your local paper , it seems like our Craig's list is terrible for aquariums.


#12 Guest_cjohns_*

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:58 AM

If they would last a month that would get GREAT! They clog up in a week. But the tank does stay clean.

#13 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:35 PM

I would quit buying the replaceable cartridges and use some other filter media that you can rinse and reuse forever, like small lava rock, coarse gravel, Poret foam, pot scrubbers, etc.

#14 Guest_cjohns_*

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:57 PM

Yes I will look into that. Would a green scotch brite pad be safe to use?

#15 Guest_tomterp_*

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:40 PM

If they would last a month that would get GREAT! They clog up in a week. But the tank does stay clean.


I rinse those out and re-use them for months. They do break down over time but you can rinse them out in a sink and keep them going for months.

I also take one of those rectangular foam filter pads, cut a hole in them and shove them up over the filter intake tube, thus adding a pre-filter to the system. Greatly increases the overall bacteria capacity and reduces load on the filter element within the filter.

#16 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:51 PM

Just for the record because there's some confusion with pronouns, the paradiso synthetic sea sponges have lasted in my filter for the past five years with no problems. They don't break down.

I don't see the point of using scotch brite pads instead. They are larger pored and don't trap dust as well. They're also not as good a size. My synthetic sea sponges fit right in with no cutting or sewing multiple together, like I think you'd need to do with scotch brite pads (they're thin).
I posted a video up above. You can see the sponge in the filter.

#17 Guest_cjohns_*

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:42 PM

Yes the sponges look like the do a good job. My filter is alot different then your. Next time I buy a filter ill keep the spongs in mind.

Edited by cjohns, 13 February 2014 - 07:44 PM.


#18 Guest_cjohns_*

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:43 PM

I rinse those out and re-use them for months. They do break down over time but you can rinse them out in a sink and keep them going for months.

I also take one of those rectangular foam filter pads, cut a hole in them and shove them up over the filter intake tube, thus adding a pre-filter to the system. Greatly increases the overall bacteria capacity and reduces load on the filter element within the filter.


Both are good ideas ill try it.

#19 Guest_cjohns_*

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:29 PM

One other thing to consider (maybe a different version of the quality factor that Erica mentioned). I would pay more for a very nice looking stand depending on where you are putting the tank. I mean, some of us have a significant other that would not tolerate cinder blocks and 2 x 6 for an aquarium stand in the house... or even a nice metal stand. So if this "bundle" that you are looking at has a nice "furniture" style cabinet stand and hood, then it might be worth it. But more for the stand than just he tank. And most canisters can be filled with different media... one of their advantages is the ability to have a relatively large volume for you to put stuff in there, that you want to expose your tank water to.


The stand is black wood. I think it was store bought. Here is a pic but its hard to tell.

#20 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 08:19 PM

well, not wife worthy in my mind... she expects "furniture grade" stands... which means solid wood and stained (not veneer or painted)... I don't think I have a picture loaded, but I will look.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin




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