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Double-crested cormorant removal


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#1 mattknepley

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 05:23 AM

Here's a link to the SC DNR website's page concerning the legalities of taking double-crested cormorants, Phalacrocorax auritus.

My biases when examining this issue include: being a gun owner and occasional hunter, but no friend of the NRA's or "thrill killers"; I'm obviously a fish lover, but also very interested in birds. I don't view any agency as infallible, but SC DNR officials have always been sincere and helpful in my dealings with them and I am truly appreciative of their efforts.

I guess my biggest questions regarding this topic concern the necessity of P. auritus removal in these lakes, and whether or not it is a "best practice" if removal is appropriate. This may be my home state, but I know very little about this; I never knew we had a cormorant "problem".

Any thoughts?

http://www.dnr.sc.go...ants/index.html
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#2 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 07:49 AM

The Illinois River used to host many Cormorants and fisherman saw them as competition. Cormorants were hunted. This has gone on for as long as people have fished and hunted.
Just a few notes...Cormorants are perfectly edible. There is no need to waste such meat. I have never known a "thrill killer" but I am told they are common. Not a friend of the NRA but you hunt? Hunting probably won't be legal for all that much longer as forces to eliminate both hunting and gun ownership have made great advances in recent years.

#3 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 08:47 AM

After reading the "Why do we need a removal program" section, it sounds like we may need a bald eagle and osprey removal program as well. While we are at it, it would probably be best to remove all human activity from the lakes and surrounding forest too because they are certainly having a MUCH larger negative effect than that of the cormorants.

#4 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 09:19 AM

It's kind of like how local fishermen always kill "nuisance" animals like alligator gar, hellbenders, etc.

#5 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 09:29 AM

If the population can sustain the hunting pressure and there's a valid use for the dead bird beyond removing the competition I don't see a problem. Has anyone actually tasted a Cormorant? Edible is a much lower bar than palatable! I've made it a point to try just about anything I can legally take that walks, crawls flies or swims where I am, and my experience with animals that predominantly eat fish, and cold blooded prey in general (excluding fish) has not been good from an epicurean point of view. I don't think I've ever tasted anything fouler than a Northern Watersnake.

#6 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 09:37 AM

It's kind of like how local fishermen always kill "nuisance" animals like alligator gar, hellbenders, etc.


I understand this Martin and this will always take place regardless of laws or regulations. My issue with this is that it is state sanctioned.

#7 Guest_JamesShelton32_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:00 PM

Isn't this against the migratory bird act? The Feds should stop this, http://thetandd.com/...19bb2963f4.html

#8 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:11 PM

If the population can sustain the hunting pressure and there's a valid use for the dead bird beyond removing the competition I don't see a problem. Has anyone actually tasted a Cormorant? Edible is a much lower bar than palatable! I've made it a point to try just about anything I can legally take that walks, crawls flies or swims where I am, and my experience with animals that predominantly eat fish, and cold blooded prey in general (excluding fish) has not been good from an epicurean point of view. I don't think I've ever tasted anything fouler than a Northern Watersnake.


When in doubt, salt it and smoke it! If that doesn't do it, you always have barbeque sauce.
I do think strictly enforcing wanton waste laws would help here.

#9 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:15 PM

Isn't this against the migratory bird act? The Feds should stop this, http://thetandd.com/...19bb2963f4.html

Obviously it isn't against the law, or the feds would stop it.

#10 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:17 PM

I do not have a real problem with this. What if not humans preys upon cormorant? I have no interest in killing something that I don't want to eat, but I would give cormorant a try. Bet that it is one of those meats where the standard recipe is "dress it, parboil it in a large pot, discard contents, and eat the pot". I hope that people are utilizing the meat, but I imagine most of the people out there just want to kill something.

#11 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:26 PM

I do not have a real problem with this. What if not humans preys upon cormorant? I have no interest in killing something that I don't want to eat, but I would give cormorant a try. Bet that it is one of those meats where the standard recipe is "dress it, parboil it in a large pot, discard contents, and eat the pot". I hope that people are utilizing the meat, but I imagine most of the people out there just want to kill something.

My thought exactly, although my experience eating a Hooded Merganser gives me pause to try Cormorant......

#12 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:34 PM

When in doubt, salt it and smoke it! If that doesn't do it, you always have barbeque sauce.
I do think strictly enforcing wanton waste laws would help here.

True about salting and smoking, but it's a bit labor intensive to end up with something just palatable. If I start out with a piece of fresh salmon, or a groundhog I know I'll end up with something that was worth the time and effort!

#13 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:45 PM

Uland and I just talked about this type of thing yesterday. One of my goals this year is to try as many oddball meats as I can, as well as make my own "sardines" from local shiners. I may have to pick your brain Subrosa. Anyone with the fortitude to eat a northern watersnake, has my respect. I did skin and eat a timber rattlesnake road kill a little over a year ago. It was fresh, still writhing. After being musked 100's of times, I don't believe I could stomach Nerodia.

#14 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 03:08 PM

The best description of the taste of Nerodia I can give is to take a nice piece of Rainbow Trout, marinate it at room temp in mud for a couple days, then eat it raw. Timbers are decent eating, Copperheads are not. Ratsnakes are pretty good, Kingsnakes pretty bad. You REALLY need to check out a groundhog, just make sure to remove the scent sacs!

#15 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 03:21 PM

I plan to try whistle pig this year. Season is open all year. I read to look for the scent glands in the armpit area. I read that young ones are choice, but older ones are so so. I thing three or four days soaked in a milk/salt mixture should tenderize an older animal pretty well. I am going to have to take it private and get a hold of you sometime. I don't want to derail this thread any more than I have. I do notice that you have your private message option on the forum disabled.

#16 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 03:27 PM

Ok Matt I'll fix that

#17 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 03:51 PM

Last derail! Matt I can't figure out my pm situation, but I got 3 from Michael last week, so... .jhnnxn@yahoo.com


I got it. Lets talk to Michael, and get it squared away. Thanks, Matt

#18 mattknepley

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 04:12 PM

Interesting comments all the way around. Thanks for the insights. While I soak in the posts, what they say and what they say between the lines, I'll just add a couple thoughts to the mix;

Isn't this against the migratory bird act? The Feds should stop this, http://thetandd.com/...19bb2963f4.html

It is irrelevant as to whether a state/local agency enacts legislation if the feds have no desire to counter it. For example, Brevard Co., FL, several years ago got all upset about nudists at the very end of Canaveral Nat'l Seashore. The county ignited a little fire and enacted legislation forbidding public nudity. The fed response was in essence,"Pass whatever law you want, but we have jurisdiction there and we aren't about to do anything to stop the practice." Also, I need to read the link you posted. I have respect for Audubon in general and would be interested in its point.

If the population can sustain the hunting pressure and there's a valid use for the dead bird beyond removing the competition I don't see a problem. Has anyone actually tasted a Cormorant? Edible is a much lower bar than palatable! I've made it a point to try just about anything I can legally take that walks, crawls flies or swims where I am, and my experience with animals that predominantly eat fish, and cold blooded prey in general (excluding fish) has not been good from an epicurean point of view. I don't think I've ever tasted anything fouler than a Northern Watersnake.

I imagine my final opinion, if I ever develop one, will be based on thinking similar to the first sentence of this post, Subrosa.

I plan to try whistle pig this year. Season is open all year. I read to look for the scent glands in the armpit area. I read that young ones are choice, but older ones are so so. I thing three or four days soaked in a milk/salt mixture should tenderize an older animal pretty well. I am going to have to take it private and get a hold of you sometime. I don't want to derail this thread any more than I have. I do notice that you have your private message option on the forum disabled.

Uh, who's in charge of the banquet at the convention this year?
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#19 Guest_sbtgrfan_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 04:54 PM

Personally, I understand why they are doing this. I'm not 100% behind it, but I understand it. Cormorants are by far overwhelming on the Santee lakes. You run through the channel at 70 mph on a boat and you're bound to nail a few.

While I haven't researched the biology of them, I suspect they eat far more of the migratory fish mentioned in the article than Bald Eagles or Osprey (Though osprey are very abundant there too). I think DNR is more concerned about the migratory fish (shad, herring...etc) than game fish, even though it mentions game fish.

As far as eating these go, you're not allowed to eat them if taken through this removal program. Further research into some links on the page state that they must be disposed of in an approved manner such as: Donation to museum or education program, burial or burning of the birds.

I don't suspect this program will last long.

#20 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 05:09 PM

You can't eat them? Then this is wrong. This will do nothing but bring sociopaths out of the woodwork. Who else wants to kill just for the sake of killing.




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