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Nature Center Opportunity


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#1 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
  • Board of Directors
  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:46 PM

Last weekend NANFA Georgia was approached with an opportunity to help a local nature center. They currently have a number of live animal displays (mostly for herps) including this 240 gallon tank that is currently housing a few turtles.

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They would like us to help them convert this tank into a native fish display. They are located in the Chattahoochee River watershed and would like to feature their local fishes. With a tank of this size we have lots of options; but since Luxilus zonistius is unique to the Chattahoochee drainage, some of these will certainly have to be featured.

I would like to have a couple of different activities this spring/summer. On one weekend we need a team of volunteers to reconfigure the tank. If we empty the tank of its current river rock substrate and use a sand and fluorite mixture we should be able to create a substrate that will support the growth of Vallisnaria and be clean and easily maintained by the staff of the nature center (although I also anticipate that we will be asked to help from time to time).

Additionally we will need to collect appropriate numbers and species of fishes to inhabit the tank. This should be the fun part for most of our members, along with seeing the final display at work teaching people about our native fishes.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#2 mattknepley

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  • Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:10 AM

Fantastic! What a great opportunity for all involved, excepting maybe the turtles. Way to promote NANFA and our finny interests! Will be happy to help either weekend, schedule permitting. (Ugh, you know how that goes. What am I, 0 for 4, now?)... Can't wait to see what you come up with, one way or the other.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#3 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:20 AM

Who is paying for what must be around $100+ in Fluorite® substrate? Sand capped soil or capped pure clay kitty litter would be $4 for 25 pounds and work just as well.

Here are some pictures from Andrew Nguyen of how vallisneria grows in pure clay kitty litter:

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Video: youtube.com/watch?v=VvBgbqD-dwg

Source: http://www.plantedta...ead.php?t=55280

Andrew Nguyen used uncapped kitty litter in the pictures above because guppies don't burrow or throw up dust at all. Sand capped kitty litter works just as well, and protects the kitty litter from burrowing or high current. Soil also works, but must always be capped.

#4 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
  • Board of Directors
  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:29 AM

Who is paying for what must be around $100+ in Fluorite® substrate?


me
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#5 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:26 AM

I wish I lived closer, I'd love to help. Sounds like a great project. It would be awesome if, in exchange for the help, we could put a NANFA sticker on the tank or something like that.

#6 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
  • Board of Directors
  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:02 AM

I wish I lived closer, I'd love to help. Sounds like a great project. It would be awesome if, in exchange for the help, we could put a NANFA sticker on the tank or something like that.


Oh that is definitely in the plans... I haven't actually asked Casper for any stickers yet... but I am going to make sure that we have something on there!
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#7 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:05 PM

That's funny Michael. I donated a 125 gallon aquairum, set it up, stocked it, ect, ect. They converted it into a box turtle exhibit two years later.............................
If you're going through all the hassle, save yourself and please make sure they are in it for the long run.

#8 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
  • Board of Directors
  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:53 PM

Well I think they are... but I guess you never know. One thing I can say is that it is not me pushing them... they came and sought us out to help them since they have numerous other herp displays and wanted a native fish one. I am trying to think of all the ways that I can keep this low maintenance and attractive. I think that is the big thing for a public display, it has to look good almost all the time, and it cannot be too big a deal to do the maintenance.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#9 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 02:37 PM

I cannot help you in any material manner but will make a suggestion. About 15 years ago I helped a much smaller nature center in southern Indiana. In a larger tank we housed a mixed assemblage of locally occurring fishes. In an adjacent tank we setup a breeder setup housing a species that was easy to breed and usually had males only. A couple times each day we gave a formal discussion concerning what was in the breeding tank. Then we placed a female in the breeding tank and the audience was wowed by how the males sprang into their display routine. Actually spawning was not always bad as that enabled observations on parental care / early life-stage development. Site operators also became much more aware of what they were doing and could point out similar activities in the natural environment.

#10 Guest_Doug_Dame_*

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:20 PM

You know I'll be there to help, schedule permitting.

I have to agree that kitty litter ... or it's even slightly cheaper equivalent, Saf-T-Sorb from Tractor Supply (and other sources I'm sure) ... is a FABULOUS substrate for growing plants. Under $5 for a 40 lb bag. My plants are OUT OF CONTROL, unlike any modest success I've ever had before. (Granted, some maintenance is overdue.)

If this is going to be a velocity tank, some gravel and/or sand topping would be good though.

A 240-gal tank is big enough for the "full Todd Crail Ultimate Aquarium" treatment, with a large variety of micro-niches (water velocities, substrates, plants) that would keep a good variety of different fish species happy. <=== My $0.02 recommendation.

Do you have photos or knowledge of the lighting in the top ?

#11 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 11:47 PM

What do they have for filtration?

#12 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:22 AM

Kitty Litter isn't practical in this situation, as the volunteers will not be familiar with how to go about maintaining the tank and not stirring the litter. If they drop a tool, there goes visibility i that tank for at least an hour or two, if not the whole day. They can't afford to do that, so that's the reasoning for the sand and flourite over the cheaper Kitty Litter.

#13 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:11 AM

Drop a tool? Have you personally used kitty litter, Yeahson421? How much did you siphon it? If it's gravel siphoned thoroughly it's easy to remove all the small particles and leave behind only pea gravel sized bits.

Picture of my old tank. Dropping a tool would not cause a 'dust-splosion' because all that was left was pea gravel sized grains. Note how thin the layer is, only an inch or so, and all large particles. This tank was thoroughly siphoned.
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http://showcase.aqua...13/show360.html

Thoroughly gravel siphoned kitty litter has different properties than non-siphoned. Note the lack of fine particles in between the large particles in the close up picture below:

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I'm not arguing for or against it in the nature center (I don't care), but I do want to accurately portray my experiences with it. If you siphon it thoroughly and leave behind only pea sized granules, there is no dust from dropping things on it.

#14 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
  • Board of Directors
  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:29 PM

A 240-gal tank is big enough for the "full Todd Crail Ultimate Aquarium" treatment, with a large variety of micro-niches (water velocities, substrates, plants) that would keep a good variety of different fish species happy. <=== My $0.02 recommendation.

Do you have photos or knowledge of the lighting in the top ?


I hope we can get something like the "full Crail" with the different micro habitats (we do after all have southern studfish in the watershed).

Right now the lighting is four of some sort of large diameter fixtures that sort of look like reptile basking lights... but I did not even into them to see what the bulbs were... I should have... see that's why I need y'all to help me!

What do they have for filtration?


There is a huge Fluvial thing underneath that looks like a 5 gallon bucket... I think it said Fluvial FX5... which I think says that it is rated for 400 gallon tanks?
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#15 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:21 PM

An FX5 will certainly handle any reasonable bioload in a 240 as long as water changes get done. Not a fun one to open up and clean, but not problematic. Where is the water supply, where can waste water go? Have you scoped it out in this regard?

#16 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
  • Board of Directors
  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:28 PM

An FX5 will certainly handle any reasonable bioload in a 240 as long as water changes get done. Not a fun one to open up and clean, but not problematic. Where is the water supply, where can waste water go? Have you scoped it out in this regard?


I have not. I jumped to the conclusion that they would not have a problem since they are already maintaining the turtle display. But that is another good thing for me to look into.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#17 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
  • Board of Directors
  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 26 May 2014 - 07:42 AM

This weekend we tackled the tank refurbishment at Autrey Mill Nature Preserve. Doug Dame, Kathy Reed, Keith Hudgins, Bryson Hilburn, and myself Worked all day Saturday and John Duktig joined us on Sunday and we were able to pretty much complete the job. Here is a brief update and an answer to some of the questions posed:

The Nature Center staff had removed the turtles and drained the tank down to about an inch of water before we arrived. Some of us worked to remove the drift wood (a single piece over 5 feet long) and the rocks and clean the tank, while others rinsed and cleaned substrate.
tank cleaning.jpg
We were fortunate that there were plenty of water taps and hose and we were allowed to work in the yard of the Nature Center. Doug had convinced me to use Saf-T-Sorb a fuller’s earth clay that was available from Tractor Supply Co.
tank doug substrate.jpg
I think we used about 300 pounds (7 bags) to lay down a substrate base and to create the two central mounds down the center of the tank. These mounds were created using a readily available nylon based containment system (queen sized and coffee colored I believe the package stated as I purchase 3 pair for the first time ever). We then capped that with 200 pounds (4 bags) of playground sand from Home Depot.
tank final sand.jpg
Doug swears by this substrate and this kept our total substrate cost down to approximately $50 based on a couple of well-timed sales at both retailers.
tank log in.jpg
Next we placed the drift wood on top of the mounds, began to refill the tank, and planted the tank with as much Vallisneria as I have been able to grow recently. We also added a healthy dose of Nerite snails that Doug had brought (and I think at least three regular pond snails that snuck in on the plants) and finished filling the tank.
tank setup filter.jpg
We added two, two tube shop lights on top of the existing canopy (another $45 with daylight tubes). It seems that the existing lights had been re-purposed as part of the move of the turtles. The existing Fluval canister was cleaned and improved with some additional Martix. We got that started and went to bed with the tank looking decent but still a little cloudy despite our efforts to clean the substrate before addition.

In the morning we were greeted by a totally clarified aquarium that was just begging for some fish.
tank z next morning.jpg
So we pulled out boots on and went down to the little stream that runs through the Nature Center. We came up with a Blackbanded Darter and some Stonerollers and introduced them straight into the tank. Then Kathy took us to a spot she knew of one creek over and we were able to collect a ton of fish (no seriously, I had to carry the coolers out… it felt like a ton of fish). We introduced a school of 27 yellowfin shiners, 6 or so each of bluehead chubs, stonerollers, blackbanded darters, and southern studfish… oh, and a single Alabama hogsucker.
blackbanded.jpg minnows.jpg stellifer and his girl.jpg
Kind of a larger “first stocking” than I intended, but we came up with so many cool fish, they were hard to resist. They seemed to settle in nicely and most even ate some flake when it was offered.

Two great days of working with great NANFA people!
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#18 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:19 AM

Wow -- an impressive volunteer effort! I hope more local gangs of NANFAns will step up to help with displays like this for their local nature centers, schools, libraries, etc. What is your visual impression of the stockings? Do they look like rocks, or like stockings full of gravel? I guess they'll look more natural as they get coated with algae, moss. etc.

#19 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
  • Board of Directors
  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:39 AM

They do look a little "blobby" at this point. I am going to look at this later today and maybe place some more stones around them and on them in places. And then yes, I think they will "naturalize" over time. However, they were key to pulling off this two sided design. The tank was already installed in a "walk around" presentation in the middle of the room, so creating the visual break between sides gives us twice the viewing area. And we are also looking at maybe adding a few more plants which should be able to root in the substrate containment system (Doug insisted that we refer to it that way... not stockings... engineered nylon based substrate containment system).
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#20 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 10:35 AM

Did the filter use a sponge taken from an established aquarium? Or did you use API Quick Start? I don't see an ammonia processing system here, since the planting is so light.



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