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Separate the Longears?

Started by Guest_ttman_* , Apr 16 2014 07:52 PM

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#1 Guest_ttman_*

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 07:52 PM

should I separate my longears? at 1st they were just food aggressive, now it seems they are just plain aggressive. I have 9 of them in a 75G tank. they are about 1 year old. the 2 largest males are around 4-5 inches (both about the same size), the smallest (females) are ~2 inches.

The 2 big males just a dominance reversal it seems. I recently re-arranged the tank and the previously subordinate male has claimed a spot & aggressively defends it. so much so that the previously dominant male just runs away from him now. But I have seem them spar on a couple occasions. All the others, it seems have a very strict hierachy now w/everyone taking pot shots at each other.

I have another 75G that is empty that I could split the group. Would that be bad or beneficial?

Edited by ttman, 16 April 2014 - 07:53 PM.

#2 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 08:19 PM

Take a look at the care sheet that NANFA member smbass has put in this thread... http://forum.nanfa.o...sh-care-sheets/

If I read it correctly, I think that his advice is to NOT separate these fish into two groups.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#3 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 09:04 PM

Yes I think you will make the problems worse by splitting them into two groups. Right now with 9 fish the aggression of that dominant fish is spread out over 8 other fish. If you split them in two groups then you will have just 3 or 4 fish that his aggression is spread out on so each fish gets picked on more. The results will not be good for those 3 or 4 fish. I would not split them unless you want to split them up into 9 different tanks.

#4 Guest_ttman_*

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 05:37 PM

those little boogers are damaging their ears from the fighting =(

#5 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:50 PM

That is not uncommon both in captive fish and male in large breeding colonies in the wild. I think they actually go for the opercle flaps because the males with the biggest ear flaps might just be the most attractive to the females. If you want a perfect looking male longear with really big long opercle flaps you pretty much have to keep it as a single longear with maybe a group of shiners or other fish in the tank and not a group of sunfish.

#6 Guest_ttman_*

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 07:36 AM

do you think putting in other fish may curb the fighting? maybe minnows?

#7 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:18 AM

Yes that can help too but they need to be rather large durable tankmates. Nocomis chubs, large male Cyprinella shiners, fairly large golden shiners, or large Luxilus sp. Tank mates must be chosen very carefully.

#8 Guest_ttman_*

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:33 PM

I was thinking of removing all decor from the tank, so there would be nothing to fight over. anyone done this? was there still squabbles?

Edited by ttman, 22 April 2014 - 08:33 PM.

#9 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:38 PM

Do the exact opposite. You must break line of sight.

#10 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:41 AM

It can work either way. I have groups of sunfish in stock tanks in my basement that get frequent water changes that are very densely populated with no tank decor maybe 12-15 fish in 75 gallon tanks. It also can work to make the tank very complex and break up all the sight lines so that each individual fish has his or her own spot in the tank. If your able to keep them cool that helps the situation a lot because they just don't have the desire to spawn then. I think the absence of decor in the tank works best in very overstocked tanks. Rearranging things does seem to change up the pecking order at times.

I guess I also have the luxury of having five 75 gallon stock tanks and my 200 gallon display that are all dedicated to my sunfish stocks. This allows me to move fish around to an extent to keep them all happy. I do try to keep my different groups of longears separate other than a big male or two of each in the big tank. Having 5 different strains of longears makes this difficult though, thinking of getting rid of one or two strains after this breeding season. Two are new ones I have not bred yet and probably will just pick one of the two and sell or trade all of the other adults and all... Also have brood stock of western dollar, bantam, and redspotted along with the 5 longear forms. So I'm shuffling 6-15 adults of 8 different Lepomis around between 6 tanks. Not to mention the random other Lepomis that are just pets in the big tank...

#11 Guest_ttman_*

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 06:44 PM

Brian, do you have a gallery of your fish & setups? I would like to see all the strains of Longear you have. here is my tank. I re-arranged it today & added the big pot on the right. both top males settled on opposite ends of the tank. the top male choose the new pot on the right. I took the heater off-line today to try to reduce the aggression.

Attached Files


Edited by ttman, 27 April 2014 - 06:46 PM.

#12 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:02 AM

This post shows some of the stock room and my display tanks including the big sunfish tank... http://forum.nanfa.o...-the-fish-room/ I need to update it because that 55 gallon stream tank has been replaced by a 165 gallon L shaped tank. I also have my sunfish photos up in my gallery here... http://gallery.nanfa...members/smbass/ Your longears look like my strain from the Missouri River basin. I have some longears from the Blackwater River basin in FL and from the Mobile basin that I plan to try out this year and have not yet taken photos of. I want them to get out into my ponds and really get colored up before I take the photos. The Fl strain is really different, not red at all, has sort of a lighter yellow orange to the belly and blue speckles/lines all over the body. Check out this post http://forum.nanfa.o...ion-in-sunfish/ and look at the photos Isac posted of several forms of longears. That first one I think is from the White River drainage. I visited a tributary to that a couple years ago and every male longear had that droopy down curved opercle flap. Did not keep a breeding group from there but they are interesting looking. His Fl longear photo is what my Fl Blackwater River group is starting to look like but just not in full color yet. Then that red stripe down the forehead seems to be found in both the AR River and the Ozarks portion of the MO river which is where mine like that are from.

#13 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:04 AM

I don't think you said or I missed it, where are these longears from? They look like either the Missouri or Arkansas River form with the red stripe on the forehead but couldn't quite see one at the right angle to confirm it.

#14 Guest_ttman_*

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 12:51 PM

They came from you :-) MO central type.

#15 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 01:56 PM

Ok makes sense why they look like that Missouri River basin strain... glad they grew up for you!

#16 Guest_ttman_*

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:28 PM

I think this weekend I am going to separate them. the poor lesser smaller fish (lesser males & all the females) are getting pounded relentlessly by the larger fish. those lesser fish can't hold onto any territory so they get chased constantly, they look like they just want peace; a chance to rest. I certainly don't want any females getting hurt/killed. so I want to give them a chance to catch up in growth.

Edited by ttman, 01 May 2014 - 07:29 PM.

#17 Guest_ttman_*

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:04 AM

after separating for awhile now, I have to say I am glad I did it. I separated members who were close in size so there would be no question who was dominant. 5 on 1 side, 4 on the other. there is less aggression and no more bit off ears. since the 2 tanks are side by side, the 2 dominant males actually display against each other, which is quite entertaining. I do feel sorry for the females as they are the smallest fish. but I give them plenty of hiding places.

Edited by ttman, 17 July 2014 - 08:05 AM.

#18 Guest_NotCousteau_*

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 12:08 PM

Just wanted to say I love the old thread, Brian!

#19 Guest_ttman_*

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 08:14 AM

Dominant male. how do picture uploads work? I am getting the message that I only have 133kb left, so I can't attach any more, even from a new reply.

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Edited by ttman, 09 August 2014 - 08:25 AM.

#20 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 02:50 PM

Uploads here are limited since you are a guest, not a member. You can upload pictures to another site (google plus or photo bucket or whatever) and link them here by using the photo icon on the second row up above that is sort of under the smiley face. You have to use the url of the photo location and copy into that icon. That will allow you to upload more pictures. Alternately, you could join NANFA since members get a lot more storage space (I dont even remember how much).
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