If I added a culture of daphnia to a tank that would house elassoma and only added the elassoma about a month after the daphnia were inserted, could the daphnia culture persist in the presence of the elassoma in the same tank? If this helps, the tank will also have snails, scuds (May or may not be an in tank culture), and regular grindal and frozen bloodworm feedings.
In tank daphnia culture?
Started by
Guest_Joshaeus_*
, Apr 28 2014 07:40 AM
9 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:05 AM
No. The elassoma will sooner or later eat them all. Animals don't understand the concept of farming, and will devour as many as they see even if they are fat and bloated.
Also, keeping a food population in the tank with the elassoma will lead to the shyest elassoma you (n)ever saw. Unless you drop food in daily to teach them that you are the foodbringer and not to be feared, they will hide when you approach the tank.
Also, keeping a food population in the tank with the elassoma will lead to the shyest elassoma you (n)ever saw. Unless you drop food in daily to teach them that you are the foodbringer and not to be feared, they will hide when you approach the tank.
#3
Guest_WyRenegade_*
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Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:02 AM
I think that some further research into that may be warranted. I know that some individuals have been able to establish in tank cultures that have maintained long term. I would imagine that to some degree at least some of that has to do with stocking levels of fish in the tank and establishment of hiding places for the microfauna. I've never seen it discussed specifically to the Elessoma, so that may be another matter entirely.
#4
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:57 AM
It might be possible, but not easy, and I would definitely keep a fish-free backup culture. If you want Daphnia to reproduce fast enough to keep up with predation, you'll need a fairly large tank relative to the number of fish (maybe 1/3 or 1/2 the "normal" fish stocking rate) and you'll need to feed the Daphnia, which means you'll have cloudy water most of the time. One trick some aquarists do is grow Daphnia or Moina with "Pleco" or Ancistrus cats that eat lots of vegetables and convert it to Daphnia food. Maybe some native fish would work, if you can find one that doesnt eat too many Daphnia.
#5
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 28 April 2014 - 01:02 PM
... The elassoma will sooner or later eat them all.
...Also, keeping a food population in the tank with the elassoma will lead to...
Totally agree with EL here. First of all, just because they are small, you have to realize that these guys are just voracious micro-predators and right after they are full and fat and happy... the dancing will begin... and then you will have more Elassoma... and then they will help eat the daphnia...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#6
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 28 April 2014 - 01:25 PM
I did it, in my 55 gallon tank. The blackworm population lasted for around three months. I wouldn't do it again, though, because they hid from me.I know that some individuals have been able to establish in tank cultures that have maintained long term. I would imagine that to some degree at least some of that has to do with stocking levels of fish in the tank and establishment of hiding places for the microfauna.
Here's a picture of an elassoma gilberti (Tallahassee) guarding prime blackworm territory. This is a rare photo taken from far far away using the zoom on my camera.
http://gallery.nanfa...3-4/photo 3.jpg
That photo was taken on March 23rd, 2011. Here's another photo taken on March 23rd, of a fish who is washed out clear from fear because I'm looking at him. This was much more typical of your average photo from that tank at that time.
http://gallery.nanfa...7-4/photo 2.jpg
Here is a video I captured on that same day: March 23rd 2011. You can see there are fish who would prefer to hide than be seen by me. These were actually young that I hand raised, too, so basically the tamest juveniles you can start out with. But since their food was in the tank and they didn't need to come forward, they preferred to stay in the back.
http://youtu.be/4Gc4HzH4a24
youtu.be/4Gc4HzH4a24
For comparison's sake, here is a video I captured of a descendant of that population of fish a few months later on August 23rd 2011. I had stopped trying to have an in-tank population of food and switched to dropping food in every day.
http://youtu.be/wUPoIDsLmYI
youtu.be/wUPoIDsLmYI
Dropping food in teaches them to associate your human presence with food. They learn that when the human and the camera appear, so does food.
#7
Guest_Joshaeus_*
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Posted 28 April 2014 - 03:46 PM
Oh well...it was worth asking. Thankx.
#8
Guest_WyRenegade_*
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Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:40 PM
LOL, I think that is the most activity I've seen on this forum in a fair bit. Well worth the asking IMO.
#9
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:02 PM
With blackworms and Elassoma in-tank culture works quite nicely, since the fish can bite off pieces without killing the worms. It's almost like a herbivore grazing on pasture. Not so with Daphnia; bite = death.
Hmmm... if a fish eats little pieces off the worms and they keep growing back, is that parasitism rather than predation? |;>0
Hmmm... if a fish eats little pieces off the worms and they keep growing back, is that parasitism rather than predation? |;>0
#10
Guest_centrarchid_*
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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:54 PM
In a large stainless steel creamery tank (16' long x 4' wide and 2.5' deep, yes, if waterflea culture in rapid growth phase and number of Elassoma is kept low. I was able to support 18 Orconectes immunis from third instar (about time released from momma) to adulthood with carapace lengths around 32 mm. Crayfish reached those dimensions in less than 12 weeks which I have never been able to match in a pond setting. Daphinia were supported on a mixture of yeast and alfalfa. Culture did crash but it occured after crayfish went form I where feed intake greatly slowed. I did it indoors under a very stable set of conditions.
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