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5000 sunfish from indonesia?

Started by Guest_rickwrench_* , May 12 2014 10:12 PM

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18 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_rickwrench_*

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:12 PM

Saw this one, the word "scam" kept popping into my head...
But maybe not. Who knows.
Guy has an extensive FB page.

http://www.aquabid.c...tive

Rick

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#2 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 04:34 AM

Most large scale operations in Asia use open systems with a constant flow of water through the tanks. Sounds like a nice way of introducing foreign pathogens.

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#3 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 02:50 PM

Makes sense to me. To the people in Indonesia, the longear sunfish is probably in the category of pretty fishes from foreign countries, same as we see south american cichlids here. The strain that they've got is a really nice red. If there were a sunfish that were deemed worthy of mass breeding and selling as a pet, I can see how they chose this one.

Posted Image

I've said for a long time how I wished someone was selectively breeding sunfish for pet stores. Good for them, for producing something that was previously only available to north american anglers by wild catching. We shall call it the red type, and it will soon be in pet stores everywhere. Now they need to select for a blue type, too.

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#4 Guest_kirbylfth_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 03:52 PM

i totally agree with the above statement, the Mississippi has a really nice starting point strain

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#5 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 06:33 PM

For years very nice Longears have been commercially produced in Europe where they have more of an appreciation for our natives than we do. And their methods are more sound than those used in most large scale Asian operations.

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#6 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:34 AM

Would it be possible for Fireman Sam to become an official NANFA vendor? What kind of registration and whatnot is involved in becoming officially NANFA recognized?

I reached out to Fireman Sam on their facebook page: https://www.facebook...emansam.aquatic

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#7 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:01 PM

I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean here on the forum in the Vendor section?

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#8 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:24 PM

Yeah, in our commercial vendors section. We could form a professional relationship with this person, maybe get them to post some pictures of their breeding ponds and equipment, their fry, their methods, their stock for sale. In return, we could direct traffic to them to increase their sales.

I for one want more information about how they produced 2,000 longears, and if they're doing anything to selectively breed them.

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#9 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:53 PM

I am not for promoting fish to be moved around globe like that. Bad for carbon footprint, biosecurity, and genetic contamination. Otherwise production of 2,000 longear sunfish is very easy in a pond production setting even under tropical conditions so long as more competitive tropical are kept out.

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#10 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:24 PM

Agree with Centrarchid. Would rather see us promote native fish farming for aquarium use in the state, province, or country of origin, to minimize risk of exporting/importing exotic species and diseases. Why bring in international trade & customs issues unnecessarily? NANFA is first and foremost a conservation and education org. We promote native fish keeping to the extent that it is educationally valuable and helps people develop a sense of protectiveness for their local aquatic habitats. For most of us that involves keeping small numbers of each species, which will not be practical for a foreign ornamental fish farm to provide to individuals. Promoting large-scale global trade of N.Amer fishes is NOT among NANFA's goals.

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#11 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:48 PM

Is there a vendor we can refer people to for buying longears internationally, then? I've had some people in Europe express interest and my response has always been to *shrug* What if a local pet store outside the distribution of longear such as one in North Carolina roundabouts wants to find a supplier to stock their pet stores? I usually just send people vaguely to the NANFA vendor list, with the result being that no pet store I know of stocks longears. Even though they're super awesome and could be a pet store fish shopper's gateway into native species, I don't know of any selective breeding projects for them, either. *shrugs* Clearly I am not NANFA as a whole, so if you as a group want to discourage information dissemination and communication with this person who has this native fish, all right. I'd like to see their native fish propagation information, but hey that's why I facebook friended them. Maybe they'll send me photos of their setups and fry foods and whatnot if I make friends and ask nicely

Agree with Centrarchid. Would rather see us promote native fish farming for aquarium use in the state, province, or country of origin, to minimize risk of exporting/importing exotic species and diseases. Why bring in international trade & customs issues unnecessarily?

Because this person in Asia is doing it, has done it, has the fish now. Can you point to the domestic vendor offering 2,000 longears? Who is that person? Direct me to them, not being mean or sarcastic, being serious.

You mentioned education: What can this person teach us on the techniques for north american native fish spawning? I want to know more about breeding longears. I want to see pictures of their setup, to learn what foods the fry eat and don't eat. To see how the larvae develop over time into their adult shape. What does a four day old longear look like? If a domestic vendor can share that information, please do. I think longear sunfish are fascinating and want to know more about them.

FiremanSam, if you're seeing this, please join the nanfa forum and share photos of your longear spawning setups. We may not as a group want to make you an 'official vendor', but sharing photos of how you breed the fish and information on what you're feeding them, how you induce them to spawn, what the fry look like as they develop, all of that would gain you attention while at the same time giving us something very interesting to read

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#12 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 02:58 PM

Also, at this point I am really, really used to people hating it whenever I talk about something like I did there^ so please don't bother to send me a private message telling me to be quiet. I just think learning more about how this person spawns this native fish species would be cool. There would probably be a lot of NANFA members interested in a post by FiremanSam documenting the longear spawning setup, the fry growth, what the parents and fry are fed, how spawning is induced, how breeding stock is selected from each generation, etc.

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#13 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 03:01 PM

Several people here in NANFA have spawned and raised longears in ponds and aquaria, even me. Look on the NANFA main article page and in this forum. Between Centrarchid, Brian Z, and others we have a wealth of info about breeding and raising nearly every sunfish (and possible hybrid). What specific info have you not found, or asked for and not received?

I dont think any NC commercial hatcheries currently sell longears (they're not a popular fish for pond stocking) but they do sell many other Lepomis. See links below. I'm guessing some mid-west and deep-south pond-stocking hatcheries might have longears. And i'll bet Brian Z could probably get you 2000 juveniles if you really want to buy that many. One male with a few females could easily do that in a month. But who except a wholesaler is going to want 2000 longears? Most pet shops probably dont want that many.

www.ncagr.gov/markets/aquaculture/recreational.htm
http://www.ncwildlif...Hatcheries.aspx

I have nothing against FiremanSam raising N.Amer fish for Asian aquarium hobbyists. I'm glad he is, and I would be happy to have his input on our forum. Also, I've sent various fish over the years to friends in Germany, Thailand and elsewhere (via exporters with permits) who wanted to breed N. Amer fish to share with their local aquarist friends. I just don't think NANFA should be promoting importation of Asian-farmed N.Amer fish.

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#14 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 03:04 PM

I just don't think NANFA should be promoting importation of Asian-farmed N.Amer fish.

We agree on that part, I'm just a sucker for more pretty pictures of spawning longears

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#15 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 14 May 2014 - 03:16 PM

Erica, to answer your original question. We do not have official NANFA Vendors... there is no such thing. Please see the note below that is at the top of the Vendor section of the forum. I believe that our only restriction would be that the Vendor would have to be a NANFA member.

Transaction notice: forum.nanfa.org and its staff cannot confirm the legitimacy of any/all deals and are not responsible for anything posted in this forum. All transactions are done at your own risk. We reserve the right to question the sale and restrict access to anyone without prior notification. NANFA does not receive any funds from these transactions and does not endorse any sales/exchanges within this forum.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#16 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 03:49 PM

Neat! So if FiremanSam (or any vendor) pays to be a NANFA member, they can get a spot on the commercial vendors page? That's awesome

I want to see more photos of spawning longears. Let's see if FiremanSam will join and share with us

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#17 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 14 May 2014 - 04:23 PM

I don't get the fascination...??? There are longears here in the US. What vested interest does Indonesia have in our fish? Seems like just a commodity to them. Longears could be bred here just as easy if you wanted them. We already know a couple of people that know how to do it. And they have posted here and spoken about their methods at the NANFA conventions and everything. But sure, this is an open forum, and NANFA is an open organization dedicated to the appreciation, study and conservation of our continent's native fishes. Anyone that wants to fit into that... come on in, the water is fun!

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#18 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:11 PM

I completely agree with Michael here. What is your fascination with this guy. It almost sounds like you have some sort of vested interest in his sales. If he is mass producing these fish, the likelihood that he has taken the time to take photos of days old fish or document his fry feeding protocol is very small.

If you want to know how to breed these guys, ask Brian Zimmerman or centrarchid. Not only do they routinely do this very thing, they are also active NANFA members, located in the US, and all around nice guys. Certainly not saying the fireman is not but these guys are right here.

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#19 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:40 PM

I am locking this. This is the most ridiculous thread I have seen in a long time. Not because of the original post, but due to an infatuation with a foreign breeder dumping some longears into a pond and getting a good spawn. There is no story here, no data, nothing. Anyone can dig a decent sized hole in the ground, and stock it with sunfish. You will get thousands of fry.