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Downsizing his tank?


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#1 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 02:05 PM

So I actually decided to not introduce another fish in with my sunnie, I had a JD and a salvini to try but right before their quarantine was up my jewel cichlids killed my firemouth (another tank) after they had already established their territories and were getting along and everything. Well as BAMF is the only fish I am actually attached to I decided it wasn’t his head I wanted to find when doing maintenance. But this brings up a next question.
As BAMF has matured going on 6 plus inches he literally never leaves his one half of the 55 tank. Well if he is not going to utilize the whole tank and isn’t going to have a tank mate what do you think of me putting him in my 30 gallon? It’s basically the same room he uses in the 55 now but doesn’t allow him that extra room which currently is useless.
What is ya’lls option of downsizing a tank? Because truly if he isn’t going to use the full tank I would like to put my cichlids from the 30 plus a few more into the 55. But I am not sure if a 30 is an appropriate for a full grown single sunfish as he could still be growing (I guess I’ve never had a sunfish before but read they could get 8”). I wants what's best for him in the long run and do understnad that bigger is typically better but wanted to see everyones option of a single sunfish in a 30 gal.

#2 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 02:18 PM

Before I address downsizing, I'd like to address not leaving that side of the tank.

1) I can't help noticing it's spring time right now. Did he make a nest? Is he staying on that side of the tank because he made a nest and is guarding it? If so, it might be a seasonal thing, and he'll go back to using the whole tank in a month ish.
2) Have you tried feeding him on the other side of the 55? For example when I was dropping in minced chunks of unbreaded frozen cocktail shrimp, the fish went where the shrimp chunks were. I bet if you fed him on that side of the tank, especially with something tasty he doesn't normally get, he'd go there.

#3 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 02:25 PM

Before I address downsizing, I'd like to address not leaving that side of the tank.

1) I can't help noticing it's spring time right now. Did he make a nest? Is he staying on that side of the tank because he made a nest and is guarding it? If so, it might be a seasonal thing, and he'll go back to using the whole tank in a month ish.
2) Have you tried feeding him on the other side of the 55? For example when I was dropping in minced chunks of unbreaded frozen cocktail shrimp, the fish went where the shrimp chunks were. I bet if you fed him on that side of the tank, especially with something tasty he doesn't normally get, he'd go there.

He was making his nest in the center of the tank but I have notice him nesting on the one side of the tank behind the big driftwood looking decorations I put in there. Since he has made that particular cave place his nesting area he hasn't really left it besides to occasionally greet me and to feed. Yes I actually have only been feeding him on the other side of the tank to get him out from behind the one piece of decor and used to the whole tank again. I also feed him some live minnos and he came out to eat but then he immediately goes back to his one side. How long does breeding season last, if that is the only reason he is staying where he is I don’t mind waiting it out but if he has just chosen that small chunk as his territory and wants nothing to do with the rest well that kinda sucks and is a waste of a decent tank.

#4 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 02:52 PM

This is his set up and THIS is what I get to see lately.... no fish. Just a big empty tank. Where I marked is where he normally stays and doesn't venture far from.

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#5 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 02:57 PM

You might be able to make breeding season end if you put a heater in the tank and raise the temperature to like 75 F or so. That's not hot enough to hurt him, so it's worth trying. Heaters are a bit expensive though, and for the the 200 or 300 W sized ones it takes to really control temperature in 55 gallon tanks, it'll be anywhere from $15 (cheapo, ebay, break in less than a month) to $55 (3 year warranty, petsmart, warranty ended up being worth it because it also broke in a month. Keep your receipt). If you've got a local fish club, the heaters at club auctions usually go for $10 to $20 each.

But I don't think he's responding like a breeding fish would. Usually they make their nest on a flat patch of gravel, not inside a log. That's unusual behavior. Hmm. I don't think in my entire history of fishkeeping I've ever seen a fish hide in a log when it's the only fish in the tank like that. Bigger fish there to eat it? yeah, they hide. Brightly colored fish terrifying in their beauty? yeah, they hide. Giving birth? hide. Vacuuming or walking by the tank? hide. But this behavior? I dunno, I can sorta see why you were thinking about tank mates. I've only seen the behavior you're describing in teenagers on summer break, so bored they don't get out of bed and spend the whole day in their room. Depressed humans do have to come out to get food and go to the bathroom. :( Maybe dither fish are the answer. Or maybe he'd just come out to kill them, then go back in. Aggressive fish are tough.

#6 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 03:11 PM

Ya it's weird he was so interactive before too. I mean he will come out some but almost never ventures past the deer head unless it is to dart to the other side for food then come back. Yes it’s exactly why I wanted some tank mates so there would be more activity, truly I’d love some dither fish but I think he will just kill them. My LFS was selling some decent sized dollar fish but I truly didn’t feel like spending $14 a piece on a school of fish he would probably pick off one by one. Shoot he won’t even allow me to keep feeder fish in even at large numbers for more than a day or two before he’s eaten them all..... Hate to say it but despite me loving this fish it makes for a boring tank.

#7 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 03:17 PM

Also I have plenty of heaters for my other tanks that is not the issue, however we are in FL the water temp stays between 70-75 anyways and my BIL advised last time he tried to put a heater with him in the winter BAMF got sick acting. I don't want to harm him and really don't think he'd do well with warmer temps but I mean I coulld try it if it would help.

#8 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 03:26 PM

No, if your water's already 75 and if he's not made a pit in a shallow open area, we can rule out nesting as the cause of his behavior. He's not nesting, he's hiding. Heating won't turn off a spawning mode that's not present.

#9 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 03:40 PM

Ok good, yes when he was nesting before it was in the middle of the tank front and center. I read somewhere sunnies can get more cautious as they mature. Is this true? Any other reason he doesn't use the whole tank anymore, doesn’t swim as much anymore? Could it be because I don't have the pleco or catfish in there for him to attack anymore? Boredom? Just no need for a larger area? Are they just more active when smaller/younger? I thought of even putting a couple crayfish in with him just SOMETHING so I'm not normally looking at an empty tank. But I’m not certain. Below is a pic of when he was nesting, you can clearly see he was out from behind the décor and in the middle of the tank.

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#10 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 04:38 PM

So am I assuming a 30 gal is to small? Should I try it and see how it goes? I don't want him stunted like he was in the 10 before I got him. But it seems like he has slowed down growing.

Edited by Aireal, 30 May 2014 - 04:56 PM.


#11 Guest_Pumpkinsteve_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 06:54 PM

I think a 30 will be fine. I'm on the other side of the fence on stunting in aquariums too, I think it is good for them and prolongs their lives. Multiple studies on high nutrition low calorie diets have shown that significantly increases the lifespan of an animal. I've seen this study done on ants, mice, and monkeys, and the conclusion is the same. It's unlikely that we will ever see a study on fish, because consumers, anglers, and hobbyist all want big fish. But it stands to reason to hold true. Doubly so, because less food means less waste, leading to a higher water quality.

#12 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 07:24 PM

Giving him a 30 gallon is sort of like ignoring a family member who's so depressed they won't leave their bedroom all day. Everyone is probably going to think I'm a bad person for saying this, but heck, give him stuff to kill. Fill the 55 gallon tank with things for him to hunt and eat. Idea: Get one of those super cheap gigantic 300 ish gallon stock tanks and put it in your yard. Put some livebearers in there and a giant armful of ceratophyllum. Grow your own disease-free feeders, and toss a few males (only remove the males; removing even 9/10 of your males won't affect the livebearers' birth rate) in the BAMF tank every day or so. BAMF is a BAMF. Let him hunt and chase and frolic in the murder. *shrugs*

#13 Guest_steve_*

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 10:43 PM

We all have our own preferences and in the end it will have to be what you're comfortable with. The only reservation I would have with putting him in the 30 gallon is that it will require more frequent water changes to keep the nitrate level down and water quality up as sunfish are kind of dirty critters. Speaking of nitrate levels, you mentioned that he is hiding more than normal? I've seen fish hide and become skittish when nitrate levels are getting high. Not saying that is the problem, just an observation. Changes in lighting can make them hide more too.

Erica, You're not at all a bad person for suggesting letting him do what comes natural, It is after all, a fish-eat-fish world.

#14 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:14 AM

Erica that doesn't make you a bad persona at all. And BAMF LOVES his live food! It doesn't however get him from his one side of the tank. But after reading the one comment above I did realize I had just put a light back to his tank as his was broken for a little while. I think that is why he was hiding. When I turn the light off, he come rights out. He will still get excited and “wiggle” when I shake his food bag, will follow my finger along the glass ext but still only to the one ½ of the tank. He just plain doesn’t like the other side. I don’t know. I will also check the water qualities but I don’t think that is the problem. He gets 30% weekly water changes and he is the only fish in the tank and it is established but it never hurts to check. I may do that tonight.

#15 Guest_Erica Lyons_*

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:50 AM

...the tank ... is established ...

The end product of bacterial nitrogen processing is nitrate. It accumulates, and must be removed via water changes or live plant growth. Bacteria alone don't make a 'cycle'; they make a dead end path to nitrate.

You could also try rearranging the tank, too?

And I've heard a red light bulb scares skittish fish less.

This is just an idle idea, but is he afraid of the white stag head statue? It's the brightest thing in there. You could try taking it out.

#16 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:58 AM

The end product of bacterial nitrogen processing is nitrate. It accumulates, and must be removed via water changes or live plant growth. Bacteria alone don't make a 'cycle'; they make a dead end path to nitrate.

You could also try rearranging the tank, too?

And I've heard a red light bulb scares skittish fish less.

This is just an idle idea, but is he afraid of the white stag head statue? It's the brightest thing in there. You could try taking it out.

he's had the stag head since he was 2 " and put in the tank never had an issue with it and still goes up to it all the time. he even nested next to it when he was in breeding mode. I'll check my water quality when I get home from work tonight.

#17 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:37 PM

ok so Sunday right before his weekly water change the water quality were...
PH high range 7.4 ppm, Ammonia 0 ppm, Nitrite 0 ppm, Nitrate 5ppm

They seem pretty normal to me, So I don't think that is the case. I hate to stress him but I may try him in the 30 and see how it goes for a week or so and if he seems to stressed or doesn't adjust I can move him back. A 55 is just alot of space for 1 fish that doesn't use the whole tank.

#18 Guest_QuoVadis_*

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:58 PM

I think a 30g is fine. If I were you I'd just keep changing the same amount of water as you were on the 55g. (i.e. ~15 gallons each week, or 50% of the 30g).

#19 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 01:00 PM

I think a 30g is fine. If I were you I'd just keep changing the same amount of water as you were on the 55g. (i.e. ~15 gallons each week, or 50% of the 30g).

Yes I was thinking that as well, just do 50% water changes weekly.

#20 Guest_Aireal_*

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 02:14 PM

BAMF has been in his new tank now for almost a week. He actually seems to be doing very well. He has gotten alot more interactive again. And will follow my finger up and down the glass and wait for food. He has even splashed me a couple of times when I go to feed him instead of hiding. I have no clue if it is because he is in the smaller tank now, or because he is right next to my computer desk to see me a lot more again. But either way he seems happy and so am I. I will monitor him closely and if anything seems off can put in a 55 again. But for now he is happy and so am I!

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