All I can say is FINALLY. I've been wanting to keep natives since the day I started keeping fish but stuff came up, long story I've never got to keep them until now. Laid down my foot today and told myself if I'm going on a collection trip anyway why not keep a few fish instead of giving them all to others. 6 hours of walking up and down the allegheny river and a local creek later and I went home with 4 fish: an un-ID'd chub (I'm guessing creek), a male and female Greenside Darters, and a Green Sunfish. The sunfish is about 2.5", darters are 2.5" and 3", and the chub is 4".
I was originally planning on putting them in my 75 gallon but I realized in the end all I need to set them up a tank is a new stand since I have an extra tank or two laying around. So, I'll be putting them in a 30 gallon long as a growout tank as soon as I can get a stand (2-3 days) but for now they're in a 5 gallon bucket with a seeded sponge filter attached to a rock and a bit of PVC pipe to hide in. I'll be doing a bunch of small water changes while they're in the bucket to prevent any ammonia buildup although I'm pretty confident that the sponge filter should do most of the ammonia removal.
My final plans when all the fish are fully grown are going to be: give the green sunfish the 30 long to itself, give the darter pair a 20 tall (and hopefully spawn them), and the chub...meh I'll figure something out but worst comes to worst I'll put it in my 75 trop since it's only set on 75 F and where I got it gets hotter than that in the water during June-August.
Cant wait to get these guys in an actual tank!
Pictures coming in a few!
PS since I'm new to natives any advice about these species would be greatly appreciated such as feeding since their wild. I plan on feeding frozen bloodworms tonight but obviously I don't want to feed the same thing every day so what are some other foods I could feed and what's some good tips how to wane them on to dry?
My First Natives :)
Started by
Sean Phillips
, May 31 2014 04:11 PM
37 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_killier_*
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Posted 31 May 2014 - 05:29 PM
Both the chub and the sunfish will take to dry foods easily enough especially if prompted. However, the darters will more than likely never take prepared food beyond frozen. Greenside darters relish snails though, so if you have a booming population they will be more than happy to snack away.
#3
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 31 May 2014 - 06:10 PM
Both the chub and the sunfish will take to dry foods easily enough especially if prompted. However, the darters will more than likely never take prepared food beyond frozen. Greenside darters relish snails though, so if you have a booming population they will be more than happy to snack away.
This is true. Darters will however pick at flake food, but I think they expend as many calories getting to it than they get from it. So even if you see them eating flake, don't expect them to thrive. Oh, and greensides, just keep them in snails, and you can't lose. It is a lot of fun to watch, suck them right out of the shell.
#4
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 31 May 2014 - 07:55 PM
Thanks for the info, sadly none of the fish are eating yet. I gave them frozen bloodworms about 10 minutes ago and I haven't seen any of them touch any. I have some small cichlid fry I could try giving the chub but the darters and sunfish won't touch them I'm sure. Don't have any other frozen foods but cocktail shrimp. I do have some live nightcralwers I could cut up to bite sized pieces if you guys think that would work?
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#6
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 31 May 2014 - 09:13 PM
I would not even worry about it for a few days. Let them acclimate, and don't foul your water in the meantime. Wait a couple days, and try feed again.
OK thanks! Don't know what I'd do without this forum for native help since the native fish forum on MFK gets next to no attention. Wait a few days though, they'll be ok for that long without food? I did dig out one of the few snails in my 30 for the darters but I haven't seen them touch it yet.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#7
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 01 June 2014 - 07:26 AM
Woke up this morning and everybody is good and active but the sunfish definitely doesn't like the chub getting in its space and with such little area in a 5 gallon bucket that's a problem. Now the chub is just cowering in one spot at the surface and the sunfish even attacks him up there occasionally. I could put him (chub) into my 75 and see if it gets along with the fish in there but I'm still worried any of the natives could have disease...
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#8
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 01 June 2014 - 07:45 AM
I know you are trying to do things right, but the best way to avoid most disease is reduce stress... and the best way to do that, is to get the fish into a well cycles stable aquarium... if it were me, I would
- dont collect fish that you dont know what they are ("chub" is not a species and not everything that looks chubby is the same or neems the same environment
- dont collect fish until you have adequate housing for them
- dont "over quarantine" I have lost more fish waiting to put them someplace than I ever lost by just getting them into a good, natural aquarium as quickly as possible. I'm a pretty calm person, but if you and I had to live in a 5 gallon bucket together, I would start picking on you pretty quickly.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#9
Guest_jblaylock_*
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Posted 01 June 2014 - 08:32 AM
I would not even worry about it for a few days. Let them acclimate, and don't foul your water in the meantime. Wait a couple days, and try feed again.
Matt is right....(did I say that). It usually takes them a few days. Sometimes, new fish never figure it out and they'll die. They'll eventually get it. New fish added after that will observe from other and catch on quicker.
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#10
Guest_steve_*
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Posted 01 June 2014 - 02:47 PM
........but if you and I had to live in a 5 gallon bucket together, I would start picking on you pretty quickly.
Not to worry though, If you ever do have to live in a 5 gallon bucket with Michael, it will likely have plenty of live plants in it that will provide places to hide.
#11
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 01 June 2014 - 08:05 PM
Well Michael has some good points there so when I got home from diving today I upgraded them. Dug through my basement for ten minutes and found a 14 gallon Rubbermaid bin that they're now in. The sunfish has really mellowed down but I'm beginning to notice it's more the chub's belligerent swimming patterns that are upsetting the sunfish to the point of conflict. Well regardless none of the fibs seem to be injured: the darters are hopping around being happy, the chub moves from spot to spot occasionally, and the sunfish likes to hide under the sponge filter.
I plan on waiting to feed until tomorrow evening so I'll get them good and hungry for the meal or should I try to feed them now?
I plan on waiting to feed until tomorrow evening so I'll get them good and hungry for the meal or should I try to feed them now?
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#12
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:43 PM
Night three of not eating. I tried frozen bloodworms first, then a sliver of live nightcrawler but none of the fish would take to either, just hid in their spots. If like to try live black worms but the closest place that sells them is 40 minutes away and since I'm to young to drive I'd have to have one of my parents drive me out there but they aren't willing to go that far for fish food every week sadly, guess I'm kind of screwed on feeding 
. I need to find something they'll eay though and within a few days, would redworms or live adult brine shrimp be worth trying?
. I need to find something they'll eay though and within a few days, would redworms or live adult brine shrimp be worth trying?
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#13
Guest_steve_*
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Posted 02 June 2014 - 09:03 PM
How are you offering the food? If you thaw the bloodworms first and then offer them with a little bit of water flow(like from a filter) so that they move around they will likely be attracted to them. It could also be that some of the fish feel intimidated by some of the others. For example, the creek chub could be intimidated by the sunfish and the darters could feel intimidated by both.
#14
Sean Phillips
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- NANFA Member
- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 02 June 2014 - 09:14 PM
How are you offering the food? If you thaw the bloodworms first and then offer them with a little bit of water flow(like from a filter) so that they move around they will likely be attracted to them. It could also be that some of the fish feel intimidated by some of the others. For example, the creek chub could be intimidated by the sunfish and the darters could feel intimidated by both.
Maybe I'll try filter flow next time. I was thawing the bloodworms but I turned the sponge filter off while feeding so there wasn't any flow, I just did that so I could see if they were eating since a birds eye view is all I have until I can get them into a tank (hopefully tomorrow).
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#17
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:05 AM
Yes. That could have everything to do with it!
Good point, I tried to sit back a good ways when feeding by I think they can still see my head. I'm gettin the gravel and decor for the tank today so I'll have the fish in my tonight if everything goes well since I already have the cycled sponge filter. Looks like I'll be doing gravel for the substrate since the pool filter sand I have is very coarse compared to what I wanted and I'm not allowed to use "creek silt" since the tank is in my dining room and that doesn't look pretty
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#18
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 03 June 2014 - 08:31 PM
Well they're in the 30 now and are much, MUCH happier. I dropped in a nightcrawler sliver and the darters are still pounding on it, taking tiny bites each time. The sunfish took two small bites at the beginning and hasn't touched it since but I've seen him eye it up several times since. The chub sadly is just sulky under the sponge filter but I'm not as worried about it and am starting to realize with all of them: they'll eat anything before they starve. If anyone has any more food recommendations I've got open ears/
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#20
Guest_Abrams96_*
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Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:21 PM
I have a rain barrel outside that's full of mosquito larvae..I just swish my aquarium net around in it for a a few seconds then put them in my tank. Darters go crazy for them.
Edited by Abrams96, 03 June 2014 - 09:22 PM.
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