Picked myself up a green sunfish and a pair of greenside darters the other day on a collecting trip and since I'm new to natives I'm not sure what the best food for them (specifically the darters) would be. I've been feeding either live brine shrimp or frozen bloodworms for the past week or so and at this point I'm going to try to get them on to just frozen with live only once in a while. Is there anything else I should be feeding them for variety such as greener foods or are they fine with bloodworms and brine shrimp as their entire diet? Also, I know this is under darters but just as a quick question when should I be starting the sunfish (or darters if applicable) onto dry foods?
Darter Feeding Question
Started by
Sean Phillips
, Jun 09 2014 10:00 AM
21 replies to this topic
#1
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:00 AM
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#2
Guest_Sunfish catcher 321_*
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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:07 AM
Sunfish usually will eat prepared food.
#3
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 09 June 2014 - 11:03 AM
Please read this previous discussion: http://forum.nanfa.o...-throat-darters
This one's also on the same topic: http://forum.nanfa.o...nd-flake-foods/
and this one: http://forum.nanfa.o...eeding-darters/
This one's also on the same topic: http://forum.nanfa.o...nd-flake-foods/
and this one: http://forum.nanfa.o...eeding-darters/
#4
Guest_NotCousteau_*
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Posted 09 June 2014 - 12:17 PM
I'm new to darters myself and am no expert, but it sounds like you're off to a great start. I feed my rainbow and Iowa darters frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp, daphnia and vegetable matter. I bought one of those four-packs at the pet store that contain: just frozen bloodworms, just frozen brine shrimp and then two mixed batches of different foods. (Sorry; I do not have the package in front of me now.)
Darters seem like largely insect and microcrustacean feeders, from what I've read online.
I thaw the frozen food in a plastic cup filled with tank water, and then slowly squirt the food out near the bottom via a turkey baster. Once the darters became accustomed to expecting food from the turkey baster (this took a week or less), I slowly started mixing in just a little bit of pellet and flake food in the cup containing the thawed frozen food.
Most of the darters took to the pellets right away, although some spat them out once or twice before accepting it. I think all of my seven darters will now take some pellets while eating the frozen foods. They've rejected the flake food even after spitting it out once or twice and trying it again.
I do not intend to feed mostly flakes or pellets; I just wanted to make sure I had the option by "training" them onto dry foods.
Good luck to you.
Darters seem like largely insect and microcrustacean feeders, from what I've read online.
I thaw the frozen food in a plastic cup filled with tank water, and then slowly squirt the food out near the bottom via a turkey baster. Once the darters became accustomed to expecting food from the turkey baster (this took a week or less), I slowly started mixing in just a little bit of pellet and flake food in the cup containing the thawed frozen food.
Most of the darters took to the pellets right away, although some spat them out once or twice before accepting it. I think all of my seven darters will now take some pellets while eating the frozen foods. They've rejected the flake food even after spitting it out once or twice and trying it again.
I do not intend to feed mostly flakes or pellets; I just wanted to make sure I had the option by "training" them onto dry foods.
Good luck to you.
#5
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 10 June 2014 - 06:14 AM
Thanks guys, think I'll go for a varied diet of frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp, tubifex, and se vegetable matter (would spirulina be good?) in addition to live such as daphnia, blackworms, and insects. I'll be trying to get the sunfish on pellets in a week or so.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#6
Guest_Erica Lyons_*
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Posted 10 June 2014 - 08:54 AM
The grated cocktail shrimp I mentioned work well, too. And grindal worms are a basically free source of live food. Their maintenance cost is just the cost of a few dog kibbles each week.
#7
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:18 AM
The grated cocktail shrimp I mentioned work well, too. And grindal worms are a basically free source of live food. Their maintenance cost is just the cost of a few dog kibbles each week.
That's good since I have frozen cocktail in my freezer i normally use for my catfish
. Yeah, microworms are supposed to be easy as well but somehow I killed an entire culture in a week.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#8
Sean Phillips
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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:01 PM
Brought back 8 snails from the quarry today and the darters are just inhaling the smaller 7! The biggest is way to big for them to eat but it's actually kind of cool so I'm keeping it as a scavenger for uneaten food.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#9
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:09 PM
You will never have a snail overpopulation with greenside darters. The hard part is keeping enough for them. Isn't it really cool to watch them suck the snail out of the shell?
They will eat small ones whole, but the ones closer to 1/2 inch, they will suck them out.
They will eat small ones whole, but the ones closer to 1/2 inch, they will suck them out.
#10
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:20 PM
You will never have a snail overpopulation with greenside darters. The hard part is keeping enough for them. Isn't it really cool to watch them suck the snail out of the shell?
They will eat small ones whole, but the ones closer to 1/2 inch, they will suck them out.
The one that's left alive has got to be at least 1.5" I'm diameter, if anything I think the darters are to scared to get near it, good thing it can't chase them very fast. Is there any downside to leaving the giant snail im there as a scavenger since I don't want it to scare my other fish since it's bigger than my green sunfish and it also seems to be making a large amount of waste for what I though snails made? PS, I don't dive but every two weeks which is where I get snails so should I just buy a bag full at my LFS and have them last a week or what?
Edited by Everything Fish, 14 June 2014 - 07:23 PM.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#11
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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:28 PM
No reason not to have the big snail. My local streams are loaded with snails, I would suspect yours are too. Or get them from the LFS.. Stock a bunch outside in a kiddie pool, it will grow plenty of algae to feed them, and you should have a fairly steady supply throughout the warmer months. Throw some daphnia in there as well and you will have another live food source.
#12
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:07 PM
No reason not to have the big snail. My local streams are loaded with snails, I would suspect yours are too. Or get them from the LFS.. Stock a bunch outside in a kiddie pool, it will grow plenty of algae to feed them, and you should have a fairly steady supply throughout the warmer months. Throw some daphnia in there as well and you will have another live food source.
Would a Rubbermaid bin work?
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#13
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:54 PM
Sure would. You may want to put it in partial shade, so it does not get too hot. Also, a clear bin would allow more light in, and probably heat up less. Any type of structure would create more surface area for algae, and an airstone certainly would not hurt, but is not absolutely necessary. Age the water for a couple days, throw in some flake food to provide some fertility, even a little bit of miracle grow. Maybe a bit of water from a pond with algae, and you should have algae growth pretty quick. Then throw in as many pond snails as you can collect. Should start seeing eggs fairly quick. It is a bit late in the season to get the biggest benefit from it, but you should still get plenty of snails. Next year start earlier, or just take the tub inside during the winter, and keep a light over it. Your reproduction will slow, but you will be all set in the early spring to take it back outside.
Whatever other darters you choose will also eat snails, probably not as aggressively as the greensides, but they will eat them.
Is your big snail a trapdoor snail/chinese mystery snail? If so they are kind of cool. They are livebearers, but they do not reproduce terribly fast.
Might throw a couple of guppies or whatever in the tub to keep the mosquito larva down if you don't use an airstone. Then you can harvest baby guppies to use as feeders as well.
Whatever other darters you choose will also eat snails, probably not as aggressively as the greensides, but they will eat them.
Is your big snail a trapdoor snail/chinese mystery snail? If so they are kind of cool. They are livebearers, but they do not reproduce terribly fast.
Might throw a couple of guppies or whatever in the tub to keep the mosquito larva down if you don't use an airstone. Then you can harvest baby guppies to use as feeders as well.
#14
Sean Phillips
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- NANFA Member
- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:31 AM
Sure would. You may want to put it in partial shade, so it does not get too hot. Also, a clear bin would allow more light in, and probably heat up less. Any type of structure would create more surface area for algae, and an airstone certainly would not hurt, but is not absolutely necessary. Age the water for a couple days, throw in some flake food to provide some fertility, even a little bit of miracle grow. Maybe a bit of water from a pond with algae, and you should have algae growth pretty quick. Then throw in as many pond snails as you can collect. Should start seeing eggs fairly quick. It is a bit late in the season to get the biggest benefit from it, but you should still get plenty of snails. Next year start earlier, or just take the tub inside during the winter, and keep a light over it. Your reproduction will slow, but you will be all set in the early spring to take it back outside.
Whatever other darters you choose will also eat snails, probably not as aggressively as the greensides, but they will eat them.
Is your big snail a trapdoor snail/chinese mystery snail? If so they are kind of cool. They are livebearers, but they do not reproduce terribly fast.
Might throw a couple of guppies or whatever in the tub to keep the mosquito larva down if you don't use an airstone. Then you can harvest baby guppies to use as feeders as well.
Awesome! That answers both my questions since there's no way my mom would go for a bin full of mosquito larvae in our back yard
. Didn't know that guppies would be ok in unheated tanks. Assuming I had no air stone and no filtration, would guppies be able to survive long in the bin?
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#15
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Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:49 AM
I think the algae will keep ammonia levels down, and the wind will create enough gas exchange. Obviously the guppies won't survive late into the fall, but should do fine all summer. A couple of gambusia would be better suited to our climate, but may not be as easy to come by as feeder guppies. You could also use any of our smaller Fundulus species, or any small local minnow for that matter. Guppies and Gambusia can get oxygen from the surface layer of the water, so I am certain that they could do just fine with no supplemental air. Things change a lot when kept outdoors.
#16
Sean Phillips
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- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 15 June 2014 - 11:15 AM
Actually my favorite LFS has about 10 Gambusia right now so maybe I'll pick up a group of them instead. I'm going to set this up hopefully within the next week.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#17
Sean Phillips
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- NANFA Member
- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:42 AM
Hoping for some quick responses here. Picked up 4, 1" trapdoor snails at my LFS and I'm leaving to take them home. I don't know if my darters could eat them yet or not since I don think they're (the darters) big enough but if they do then there goes $8 of snails down the drain that were meant to be bred for food. I could put them in the tub I have outside and let hem live in there with the other big snail the darters didn't eat but I'm not sure how they'll do in stagnant water. For now I'm going to put them in the tank and see if the darters touch them or not.
Edited by Everything Fish, 18 June 2014 - 12:10 PM.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#18
littlen
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- Washington, D.C.
Posted 18 June 2014 - 12:26 PM
Add them to the tank with your darters. Even if they are unable to eat them (1" is on the large size), the snails will possibly breed. The darters will have no trouble with young snails. So win-win. If you are feeling particularly interested in feeding your Greensides--smash one of the snails and leave it on the bottom. They will pick all of the edible parts out among the broken bits of shell. If you don't have that kind of heart, forget I mentioned it.
Nick L.
#19
Sean Phillips
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- NANFA Member
- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 18 June 2014 - 12:41 PM
Sorry didn't see the last post. I put them in the outdoor tub. But since I got 4 trapdoors and I have the one big one that's not a trapdoor I'll smash the big one up for them tonight.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#20
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 18 June 2014 - 01:27 PM
I would cut it up actually, and refrigerate it, and throw pieces in. The trapdoors are good, and I would just let them breed in the darter tank. The newly delivered? trapdoors are about as big as a darter can kill. Not sure that they can with the door. Might always have to smash these. What you want to cultivate are pond snails. The small ones that you find in almost any body of water. The trapdoors will do no harm in either place.
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