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Catostrophic crash
#1
Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:07 PM
The two chemicals were used in another tank and two outside pools in pretty much the same manner with no ill effects. I'm no professional, but in roughly 20 years of keeping aquariums I have never had a tank crash. Slowly decline to a point of being toxic, yes; but never crash.
Any guesses or graphs? Or is this likely just a stupid WQ incident I should've seen coming, but have been fortunate enough to be ignorant of it up til now?
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#2
Guest_Doug_Dame_*
Posted 13 June 2014 - 09:25 PM
Whether that could happen in an aquarium is unknown, and why it might happen on this occasion but not for previous applications is likewise unknown.
But this thread from a Koi board shows that the active ingredient in AlgaeFix, DIMETHYLIMINOETHYLENE DICHLORIDE, is by itself toxic to several species of fish at rather low ppm levels, including AT THE RECOMMENDED DOSAGE for controlling algae (or even much lower for some fish species). And apparently it's really intended to be used on ponds, so getting the dosage right for small containers like aquariums could require precise measurements. Sounds like it's not really a good product for aquarium use.
You could trying using a UV filter and rotate it between tanks every few days. Or more vascular plants to outcompete algae. Also, if you are using lights on timers, for say 10 hours a day, I've read that 5 hours on / 2 off / 5 on doesn't bother vascular plants but does handicap algae.
HTH
Doug
#3
Guest_Skipjack_*
Posted 13 June 2014 - 09:47 PM
#4
Guest_steve_*
Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:02 PM
#5
Guest_Nearctic_*
Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:16 PM
The cure (20% water change) might have been the problem. Sometimes a water change will drop the pH, which will free the ammonia into the water as its most deadly form. The death scene sounds like ammonia poisoning.
#6
Guest_Doug_Dame_*
Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:34 PM
(I don't know quantitatively how large the risk is, or what ranges of pH could be involved ... but it's why I've never trusted or used any activated carbon. On the rare occasions when I buy a new filter cartridge for HOB filter like an Aqua-clear, I slit open the cartridge and toss out the carbon, unused. I may or may not replace it with some other media such as gravel or small bits of lava rock.)
#7
Guest_mikez_*
Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:42 PM
Sounds most like ammonia to me as well. Without any knowledge of the product, I'd guess it zapped the already inadequate HOB filter and already stressed fish couldn't take the added stress.
Not sure on the science, but as suggested above, ammonia is reportedly more toxic at (edit: HIGH) pH levels. If fish were already stressed by inadequate filtration, AND the filter got impaired, AND the pH was suddenly lowered, well, not good.
I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would add herbicide to an aquarium [sorry original poster]. Algae doesn't kill fish, makes the tank look natural, contributes to breakdown of waste and many fish love to eat it.
My years working in pet stores has really soured me on all chemical additives. My experience behind the scenes shows that most clerks are clueless and push what they're told to push. The managers telling them what push know fully well its snake oil but it's a sale. Plus if the guy's tank crashes, just sell 'em more fish and another bottle of snake oil. Sounds cynical and nobody wants to believe it but this is not speculation, it's personal observation, repeatedly.
#8
Guest_Skipjack_*
Posted 14 June 2014 - 03:01 PM
#9
Guest_mikez_*
Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:50 PM
I always believed it was because hornwort used up the nutrients better but I read an abstract from a paper which suggested hornwort might inhibits algae somehow. Didn't purchase the article so don't know how valid.
#10
Guest_Skipjack_*
Posted 14 June 2014 - 06:12 PM
#11
Posted 14 June 2014 - 06:43 PM
#12
Guest_steve_*
Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:26 PM
#13
Guest_mikez_*
Posted 15 June 2014 - 07:04 AM
I think hornwort uses nitrate easier, where the majority of other plants prefer ammonia and most tanks with a conventional filter(bacterial nitrification) are higher in nitrate than ammonia, therefore the excess nutrients in the form of nitrate are used up by the hornwort, thus robbing the algae of nutrients more than a plant that prefers ammonia. This is my simple understanding of it. I could certainly be a little off though. I've got plenty of room for a comprehension gap.
I like it!
That jives with my personal observation, i.e. I have very efficient biofiltration and [although I don't measure], quite sure I have zero ammonia. Yet hornwort grows gang busters, even putting out seeds.
Having no roots and no need for roots also makes the nutrient use right from the water column more efficient.
#14
Guest_Nearctic_*
Posted 15 June 2014 - 01:19 PM
#15
Guest_Nearctic_*
Posted 15 June 2014 - 01:20 PM
http://www.aquariace...l=1#post1318068
#16
Posted 15 June 2014 - 03:38 PM
#17
Guest_guyswartwout_*
Posted 15 June 2014 - 07:04 PM
#18
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:14 PM
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