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a rosy red what?

Started by Guest_FirstChAoS_* , Jun 28 2014 08:34 PM

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21 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:34 PM

I was netting in Trask Stream up in Sunapee and was having no luck finding redbellies, I found plenty of creek chub and common shiners though. Then I found this reddish minnow, and netted it and saw it was orangish like a rosy red minnow. But fathead minnows are not native to my state. So what IS this fish?

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#2 Michael Wolfe

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North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:52 PM

come on Josh... you are always telling us there are not that many fish in NH... what are the choices? :biggrin:

Whatever it is I think I like it... of course I am a shiner lover.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#3 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 08:57 PM

The body shape has me tempted to say a common

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#4 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 11:39 PM

I waited too long to get an edit to my last post. The more I examine the other fish the more confused I am. Sharp forked tail implies more a common, smaller head than body and stripe hints at creek chub. IDing odd colored fish is harder than I thought.

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#5 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 29 June 2014 - 07:45 AM

The overall look is somewhat of a Notropis to me, but I do not know the fish in your range. Even at that small size (two finger widths) I would expect to see the spot at the base of the dorsal fin on a creek chub (but that may be masked by the overall light color and the fin clamp of a fish-in-hand photo). Did you see anything on the dorsal fin or do you have another picture?

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#6 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 11:31 AM

The overall look is somewhat of a Notropis to me, but I do not know the fish in your range. Even at that small size (two finger widths) I would expect to see the spot at the base of the dorsal fin on a creek chub (but that may be masked by the overall light color and the fin clamp of a fish-in-hand photo). Did you see anything on the dorsal fin or do you have another picture?

I was guessing creek chub and common shiner as they are the two most common fish in this stream (I also found blacknose dace and northern redbelly dace, both of which are were low numbers in this stream today).

Notropis found in my state.

Blacknose Shiner (limited to the isinglass river so can be ruled out)
Bridle Shiner (not found in the Connecticut River drainage so can be ruled out)
spottail shiner

This narrows it to spottail

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#7 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 09:58 PM

Not a creek chub, wrong shape. Could it be a young rosyside dace? Only about 50 miles from invasive rosyside dace population. I don't recall exactly how they look at 1.25 inches or so.

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#8 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:11 PM

Not a creek chub, wrong shape. Could it be a young rosyside dace? Only about 50 miles from invasive rosyside dace population. I don't recall exactly how they look at 1.25 inches or so.

I never thought of that option due to distance.

That would be interesting as it may prove my dace observations on blacknose that dace may skip through larger rivers to seek adequate tributaries.

It'd be interesting to see what he grows up to be. (The Connecticut River lacks protected minnow species in NH, and oddball color mutant fish are often easy prey, so I saved him.)

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#9 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:44 PM

If that's what it is there should be some adults around.
Even a little larger juvenile should start looking more like the adults.

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#10 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 10:38 AM

I'd guess northern redbelly dace, Is there any feature that rules OUT redbelly? i cannot see any scales, so I assume they are very small. Not a creek chub; snout is too pointy. BTW I often see small creek chubs with no obvious dorsal spot.

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#11 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:00 PM

Nothing I see rules out northern redbelly dace. I've seen lots of young ones never seen any like this but that doesn't mean much.
Never seen any young rosyside dace that looked like this either that I recall.

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#12 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 04:31 PM

Boy that one gets my attention. I'm not a great ID er of obscure minnows but I do know my local New England stuff, hands on familiarity over long time and, as stated, that ain't that many possibles. I live close enough to be pretty familiar with most of the local stuff, even the rare stuff [my avatar is a bridle shiner]. So I say all that to just say,...that one stands out as obviously not anything I've seen before. The body shape is different and the big predatory looking mouth and big eye stand out from the shiners I'm familiar with. I'll be very interested to see more pics if it settles into captivity.

Edited by mikez, 01 July 2014 - 04:35 PM.

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#13 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 04:38 PM

Forgot to say, never seen redbelly dace or the other, invasive one in person, so can't rule them out based on my familiarity scale. Is that a direct trib to the Connecticut? Could be anything if so, even juvie marine species.

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#14 Guest_BTDarters_*

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 08:21 PM

If the caudal peduncle were a bit thinner, I would've said Brook Stickleback. Breeding males can be red. Hmmm. I don't know.

Brian

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#15 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 10:04 PM

If the caudal peduncle were a bit thinner, I would've said Brook Stickleback. Breeding males can be red. Hmmm. I don't know.

Brian

The caudal fin would have to be rounded not forked as well and breeding males are jet black. 3 and 2 spine stickleback males get some red. Also generally brook sticklebacks will show at least some spines when held. Though Josh may well be a fish whisperer so they relax in his hands. This sounds like a good excuse to plan another NH trip Josh. I'll be on vacation through July 7th so
maybe after that? Mike care to join us? Or anyone else in the area?

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#16 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 11:19 PM

I live close enough to be pretty familiar with most of the local stuff, even the rare stuff [my avatar is a bridle shiner]. So I say all that to just say,...that one stands out as obviously not anything I've seen before. The body shape is different and the big predatory looking mouth and big eye stand out from the shiners I'm familiar with. I'll be very interested to see more pics if it settles into captivity.

All the local stuff? Now I am worried someone dumped a pet store fathead in their and I got excited for nothing.

Forgot to say, never seen redbelly dace or the other, invasive one in person, so can't rule them out based on my familiarity scale. Is that a direct trib to the Connecticut? Could be anything if so, even juvie marine species.

Indirect trib, it flows into the sugar river which flows into the Connecticut. It's a bit too far up for marine species. (it's rare for stripers the reach Vernon dam, Bellows falls stops most shad, etc.)

The caudal fin would have to be rounded not forked as well and breeding males are jet black. 3 and 2 spine stickleback males get some red. Also generally brook sticklebacks will show at least some spines when held. Though Josh may well be a fish whisperer so they relax in his hands. This sounds like a good excuse to plan another NH trip Josh. I'll be on vacation through July 7th so
maybe after that? Mike care to join us? Or anyone else in the area?

I had the painful lesson that stickleback do NOT relax in my hands. And brook stickleback is not found in my state. As for sampling, I am always up for help finding fishies.

I am always up for having help finding and catching fish.

I tried taking a few pics in my tank but it did not hold still and like most fish dislikes the red LED that comes on just before my camera snaps a picture, My camera has issues photographing moving targets so they are not the best. Its body build looks slimmer in the tank.

Posted Image

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#17 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 06:26 AM

I was a bit overstating it to claim a marine species that far upriver but strange things do occur.

Also overstating to claim I know EVERY local species. Mostly it's a "feel" thing. That fish doesn't "feel" like anything I know, but I'm not an ID expert, local or otherwise.

I'd be up for an exploratory adventure. An excuse to buy a NH license which would open up some serious angling possibilities for me.

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#18 Guest_don212_*

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 08:07 AM

why do you keep disregarding that it could be the most commonly sold baitfish, or it's slightly less popular red version?

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#19 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 01:11 PM

why do you keep disregarding that it could be the most commonly sold baitfish, or it's slightly less popular red version?

Mainly because I was so excited to find something odd and unique in the wild I blocked out that possibility. (and told you guys, fish nerds, and NH fish and game about my amazing discovery). Though neither native or legal bait in my state pet stores do sell fatheads. Can anyone rule out someone dumping a fathead in my stream. I feel so ashamed that I got all excited about a unique and special find if it just ends up a pet store release.

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#20 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 01:22 PM

Don is probably right. Check the front ray of the dorsal fin to see if it's a Pimephales (fathead, bluntnose). Pim's have a front ray that is half as long as the next ray behind, creating a "step" at the front of the fin (when fin is spread). Using a photo tank might have solved this puzzle days ago.