Probably a simple question with a complex answer - or at least a ton of opinions. If this belongs in "Conservation/Ethics", please move it!
I'm trying to figure out how to legally survey a small creek/stream/drainage ditch without trespassing when it's all but impossible to find the landowner (mainly due to the inexact nature of land maps, but also just a logistical issue).
My question(s): How do the rest of you decide if it's legal to sample or collect in a given small drainage?
How do you approach a landowner (or do you)?
Back story: In Georgia, waterways are the property of the adjacent landowner(s) unless they are deemed "navigable" from a really old law. This has been held up in court in the 1990s. "the Georgia Supreme Court ruled that property owners who own land on both sides of a
river or stream that is not deemed navigable may restrict access to that water body. A law adopted in 1863 provides the definition of
“navigable” as any stream "capable of transporting boats loaded with freight in the regular course of trade either for the whole or a
part of the year" (from Paddle GA's summary of the finding on Ichawaynochaway Creek & Rights of Passage).
One of our local DNR rangers that I talk to pretty regularly has explained that also means you can't simply work your way upstream from a public access (road, mainly) and not be trespassing - whether the landowner owns both sides or not, they own to the center of the stream at least.
Obtaining permission to sample/collect?
Started by
Guest_Stickbow_*
, Jul 02 2014 09:14 AM
3 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_daveneely_*
Guest_daveneely_*
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- Guests
Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:28 AM
If you're already on site, ask a local landowner -- if you can't find the actual owner sometimes you can come up with their third cousin who lives up the road a piece and "Aw, old Cletus won't care, but I never heard of any fish in there, just minners. Watch out for the rattlemoccasins."
Failing that, many (most?) counties have online plat maps now. You can look up owner contact info and give them a call.
Failing that, many (most?) counties have online plat maps now. You can look up owner contact info and give them a call.
#3
Michael Wolfe
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- Board of Directors
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 02 July 2014 - 11:29 AM
My Georgia answer is get in at the bridge, stay within hollerin' distance of the bridge and say "yes, sir, just lookin' at the colorful fishes" a lot. That has worked for me everytime, mostly like Dave says, when someone approaches they just want to make sure you are not up to something that is going to hurt their property (one guy was concerned that we were cleaning fish in the stream and throwing in fish guts... he ultimately went to the house to get his daughter once he saw what a turquoise darter looked like... that was in the stream by his house he had lived in for decades). It even mostly worked on the guy that called the sheriff on Dougie and I and did not want to look at the interesting fishes we had found (bandfin shiners).
Oh, and that Paddle GA site has the best explanation of the GA waterways law, which is even more complex and contradictory than they explain. I saw that guy speak at an event one time and it is a very interesting legal mess.
Oh, and that Paddle GA site has the best explanation of the GA waterways law, which is even more complex and contradictory than they explain. I saw that guy speak at an event one time and it is a very interesting legal mess.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#4
Guest_Stickbow_*
Guest_Stickbow_*
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Posted 02 July 2014 - 11:46 AM
Yes, Michael, it is a mess.
I used to be of the "ask forgiveness" camp, but about four or five years ago was scouting for paddle put in/take out sites on the Withlacoochee with my son. We had a really bad experience with a landowner. He came armed, had already called the sheriff, and I think was about ready to shoot first/ask questions later. If I hadn't parked on his neighbor's side of the highway and been on the road right of way when he (the irate landowner) actually saw me, he might have had a case.
As it was, his neighbor showed up and offered to let me launch/take out from his property
Guess which one was from "'round there" and which was a recently relocated 'gentrified' landowner? (note: pick "B was the irate one")
Had I planned on getting off the right-of-way I probably would have gone to their house.
Ten years before, that bridge crossing had been the local swimming hole. I caught baby gar there.
Edited to add: I'm an old school country boy - we used to know everybody, know who would care if we were on their property, and follow those rules (posted or not). In general, if you were being respectful and non-consumptive/abusive, you could "traipse" across land. Wow. I'm getting old and more concerned with following the rules in my old age....
I used to be of the "ask forgiveness" camp, but about four or five years ago was scouting for paddle put in/take out sites on the Withlacoochee with my son. We had a really bad experience with a landowner. He came armed, had already called the sheriff, and I think was about ready to shoot first/ask questions later. If I hadn't parked on his neighbor's side of the highway and been on the road right of way when he (the irate landowner) actually saw me, he might have had a case.
As it was, his neighbor showed up and offered to let me launch/take out from his property
Guess which one was from "'round there" and which was a recently relocated 'gentrified' landowner? (note: pick "B was the irate one")
Had I planned on getting off the right-of-way I probably would have gone to their house.
Ten years before, that bridge crossing had been the local swimming hole. I caught baby gar there.
Edited to add: I'm an old school country boy - we used to know everybody, know who would care if we were on their property, and follow those rules (posted or not). In general, if you were being respectful and non-consumptive/abusive, you could "traipse" across land. Wow. I'm getting old and more concerned with following the rules in my old age....
Edited by Stickbow, 02 July 2014 - 11:48 AM.
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