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Redside Dace


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#1 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 04:47 PM

I was wondering if you guys could share your experiance with these fish (Clinostomus elongatus). They have been a favorite of mine ever since I first collected them and now that I have a local source for them I am interested in keeping them. If they need coldwater I can provide it and seeing as how I have already killed three in warmwater situations I am assuming that they do in fact need coldwater. I'm not willing to bring anymore home till I know I can actually keep them alive.

#2 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 05:27 PM

I was wondering if you guys could share your experiance with these fish (Clinostomus elongatus). They have been a favorite of mine ever since I first collected them and now that I have a local source for them I am interested in keeping them. If they need coldwater I can provide it and seeing as how I have already killed three in warmwater situations I am assuming that they do in fact need coldwater. I'm not willing to bring anymore home till I know I can actually keep them alive.

They don't need real cold water, mine get in the mid 70's even rarely low 80's. Mostly they need clean well oxygenated. They hold their color well, are very active, aren't particularly aggressive. They jump well and often so keep them well covered.

#3 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 06:02 PM

They don't need real cold water, mine get in the mid 70's even rarely low 80's. Mostly they need clean well oxygenated. They hold their color well, are very active, aren't particularly aggressive. They jump well and often so keep them well covered.


That's good to know, my water is in mid 70's most of the time as well. Though I could keep them in the basement I would much rather keep them upstairs so I could see them more often. Before I added them I made sure there was an air stone in the tank as well. I guess the next most likely reason they died was my acclimation process. Though I used the drip method it must not have been long enough.

#4 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 06:11 PM

This time of year it could be the warmer water as they are coming out of some real cold water here in NY. If you can keep them in a cooler area, ie basement and let them adjust to that for a while then in a couple weeks move them up. What size tank do you have them in? Are the ones out your way brick red or more towards black mottled red? Found some off I88 sw of here with a lot of black mottling over the red. Not worm cysts actual coloration.

#5 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 06:42 PM

This is a species I like to collect from cool water (55 F or less) and then bring them to temp over a couple days in the cooler. Do NOT crack the lid, they'll find their way out. Drill a hole to run an airline in. When I do this, I have had much better success. I collected them once over 70 degrees, and it was death, war and destruction.

Also, I always have ~2" cycled live sand in my coolers, fwiw. So it's more like I'm storing them in a more thermally stable aquarium.

Todd

#6 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 07:41 PM

This time of year it could be the warmer water as they are coming out of some real cold water here in NY. If you can keep them in a cooler area, ie basement and let them adjust to that for a while then in a couple weeks move them up. What size tank do you have them in? Are the ones out your way brick red or more towards black mottled red? Found some off I88 sw of here with a lot of black mottling over the red. Not worm cysts actual coloration.


I'm trying to keep them in a 29g native community. The tank houses a bluespot sunfish, blackstripe topminnows, blacknose dace and a few other cyprinids.
Two of the dace's colors were washed out so I didn't get a good look at their coloration. The one who did color up before it died was a black mottled red I would say.

Thanks for the info on acclimation, when I hear what you and Todd are saying it's clear that I'm doing things too fast. I am hopefully making a trip to the same location this Saturday and if all goes well I'll bring a few home and try your method or Todd's cooler method.

#7 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 09:03 PM

I've been studying redsides for the past two years for my masters thesis and it seems they do not tolerate temperatures over 25C and the streams I have been studying them in do not go above 22-23C. That basically is the low to mid 70's in F. So I don't see a problem with your tank temps. I agree with the others that a slower transition and being sure the tank is covered are very important things for bringing these into an aquarium. I don't have any at this time but have successfully kept them in the past for as long as 2 years. The only other thing I would suggest is be sure to feed them a diet with more invertebrates in it than most minnows. Most minnows do just fine on flake food but these seem to need more than that. In streams they feed almost exclusively on invertebrates, a lot of times off the surface, and I think the better you can imitate that in a tank the better. Hope this helps.

#8 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 07:43 PM

I did like you guys said and left my latest collected redside in the water he was collected in overnight. I kept it in a bucket with an airstone and Ammo-lock. By next morning the water temp was about the same as the tank temp and the introdiction was a success. The fish is acting fine and eating frozen brine shrimp already. I hope to collect a couple more if this one continues to do well. Thanks for the help, it's great to be able to keep one of my favorite cyprinids!

#9 Guest_nativecajun_*

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 06:22 AM

This is helpful to me also. Thanks to all. A friend has asked me if I had a couple of species of dace that I cannot recall right now where I live. I am supposed to by the resourses I have studied. So now if I collect some for my friend I will follow the proceses that were described above for aclimating them. Now for shipping anyone have any suggestions on that. And should shipping of these fish that preffer cooler waters be done only in the winter or cooler months? And I suppose different dace will preffer different water temps. So with me living in the South (Chattanooga area) maybe these dace will tollorate warmer temps temporarily in shipment unless of course I can find them only in the higher elevations. But I have had no experience with dace as they do not interest me much but as I see photos of them they are becoming more interesting to me. Nice looking some of them. I guess I will have to start researching some info and see if I can find some and ID them and maybe make a friend happy.

#10 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 05 April 2007 - 09:06 AM

Rosyside dace C. funduloides is much more heat tolerant (low 80s), although color fades at high temp.
We'll probably catch lots of these at the NC convention in June. Ive found them to be a bit more aggressive than most shiners and the very passive redbelly dace; Clino's are more like Cyprinella in temperament - need room to get rowdy and do best in a big school of mixed minnows.

This is helpful to me also. Thanks to all. A friend has asked me if I had a couple of species of dace that I cannot recall right now where I live. I am supposed to by the resourses I have studied. So now if I collect some for my friend I will follow the proceses that were described above for aclimating them. Now for shipping anyone have any suggestions on that. And should shipping of these fish that preffer cooler waters be done only in the winter or cooler months? And I suppose different dace will preffer different water temps. So with me living in the South (Chattanooga area) maybe these dace will tollorate warmer temps temporarily in shipment unless of course I can find them only in the higher elevations. But I have had no experience with dace as they do not interest me much but as I see photos of them they are becoming more interesting to me. Nice looking some of them. I guess I will have to start researching some info and see if I can find some and ID them and maybe make a friend happy.



#11 Guest_iturnrocks_*

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 10:25 PM

Heres the ones we get in Kansas, Phoxinus erythrogaster. These guys are really hard to photograph, they seem to be constantly moving. I kept them in my tank with water temps around 72-75 and they did fine.

Posted Image

Posted Image

#12 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 11:59 AM

Southern redbelly dace seem to be much more warm water tolerant than redside dace and have a much larger distribution.

#13 Guest_troutperch beeman_*

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 09:09 AM

Did the redside dace you caught have a orangeish/red patch at the base of the dorsal? Did they have any red on there sides? I caught some minnows yesterday that I think are redside but they do not have any red on there side. I tried keying them out with my book but it's hard to get any good counts. There dorsal and tail fins have an orangeish/red hue.

[attachment=3787:100_1332.JPG]
[attachment=3788:100_1329.JPG]

Sorry the pic's are so bad I'm no very good with a camera.

#14 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 10:13 AM

Did the redside dace you caught have a orangeish/red patch at the base of the dorsal? Did they have any red on there sides? I caught some minnows yesterday that I think are redside but they do not have any red on there side. I tried keying them out with my book but it's hard to get any good counts. There dorsal and tail fins have an orangeish/red hue.

[attachment=3787:100_1332.JPG]
[attachment=3788:100_1329.JPG]

Sorry the pic's are so bad I'm no very good with a camera.


Those are not Redsides...They look more like young Nocomis chubs maybe Hornyhead.

#15 Guest_troutperch beeman_*

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 10:26 AM

Those are not Redsides...They look more like young Nocomis chubs maybe Hornyhead.



Hornyhead are not suppose to be this far south in NY. I'm really bad with minnows unless the are very obvious. I just got excited that I had found something neat when I seen the reddish fins and big mouth. Probably fallfish. They were way up at the beginning of the stream, I thought fallfish were more a big water fish? :oops:

#16 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 02:27 PM

I agree that those aren't redsides. They look like creek chubs or some other related cyprinid IMO.



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