I'll be rescaping my 20 tall (24" x 12' x 16") riffle tank soon and by that I mean taking all the fish and decor out into bins and completely changing my substrate as well as adding a background and adding plants. My first and only attempt with plants in my original tropical tank ended badly to the point where I killed Anubias, Anacharis, and Java Fern. I'm hoping this was because I had terrible coarse gravel as substrate and dim lighting and not because I can't keep plants healthy. For this tank I am serious about plants. A few questions though.
1) The owner and my friend of my favorite LFS who is a planted tank pro says I should use coral sand as substrate, I was under the impression that it rose pH no? Either way would it be ok to use in my tank with a stock of 2 Rainbow Darters, 2 Greenside Darters, and 9 Emerald Shiners?
2) What would be the best type of bulb for native plants and how long should it be on per day?
3) Would it be ok to mix some of the looser gravel I already have in the tank in with sand since I think it'd look more natural or would that not be good for plants?
4) What are some good hardy (and I mean hardy) PA native plants that would go well in a tank this size and are somewhat easy to find? My sources would be my LFSs, my local creek, and my diving quarry but I'd prefer to get plants from my LFS.
Thanks!
Plants and Lighting For My Riffle Tank
Started by
Sean Phillips
, Aug 04 2014 10:06 AM
12 replies to this topic
#1
Sean Phillips
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- NANFA Member
- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:06 AM
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#2
Guest_gerald_*
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:06 AM
1) coral sand: yes it will raise pH to about 7.6 (if your tap water isnt already that high) but that should be fine for the fish you listed. Almost all N. Amer fish will benefit from the available Calcium, Magnesium, and stable pH provide by coral sand (aragonite), except maybe a few "blackwater" specialist species.
2) Best Light bulb: I will leave that one to others, but I use 6000 to 7000 Kelvin fluorescent tubes, about 14 hrs a day. Native plants use the same wavelengths as tropical plants.
3) Mixing coarse gravel with sand: Yes, i do that too, with enough sand to fill in the gaps. However coarse gravel is probably NOT what killed your previous plants. Anubias, Java fern, and Anacharis (Egeria) can get what they need from the water and sand/gravel size shouldn't affect them.
4) PA native plants: Not too many that are good long-term aquarium plants. Elodea canadensis, Hornwort (Ceratophyllum), Najas guadalupenis, Vallisneria, Myriophyllum come to mind ... and duckweed.
2) Best Light bulb: I will leave that one to others, but I use 6000 to 7000 Kelvin fluorescent tubes, about 14 hrs a day. Native plants use the same wavelengths as tropical plants.
3) Mixing coarse gravel with sand: Yes, i do that too, with enough sand to fill in the gaps. However coarse gravel is probably NOT what killed your previous plants. Anubias, Java fern, and Anacharis (Egeria) can get what they need from the water and sand/gravel size shouldn't affect them.
4) PA native plants: Not too many that are good long-term aquarium plants. Elodea canadensis, Hornwort (Ceratophyllum), Najas guadalupenis, Vallisneria, Myriophyllum come to mind ... and duckweed.
#3
Sean Phillips
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- NANFA Member
- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:34 AM
Thanks! My tap is actually 7.6 already so that's good. Wow 14 hours, I normally give my tanks 6 hours, but they aren't planted. Those are a lot more good native plants than I thought would be from pa, didn't know there was hornwort around me.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#4
Michael Wolfe
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- Board of Directors
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:11 PM
I wanna agree with Gerald on his 3) and 4). In fact, Java fern does not reall need to be in the substrate at all and does very well just attached to a piece of drift wood. I think val of some sort would be the best (but that's just my opinion).
You could also mix in some clay soil under your aragonite. Or some saf-t-sorb.
You could also mix in some clay soil under your aragonite. Or some saf-t-sorb.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#5
Guest_AMcCaleb_*
Guest_AMcCaleb_*
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Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:16 PM
Aren't there a few ludwigia species that can be found in Pennsylvania as well?
#6
Guest_Stickbow_*
Guest_Stickbow_*
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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:59 PM
Your 20 tall can work well with inexpensive commercial flourescent fixtures. All the posts in the plants forum talking about DIY fixtures mention 4' tubes, but 24 is a standard plug and play size too, so you should be able to easily set something up with supplies from HD/Lowe's.
Timers are your friend too. A lot of the "lights out for an hour at midday" theories let you get maximum growth without too much algae.
Timers are your friend too. A lot of the "lights out for an hour at midday" theories let you get maximum growth without too much algae.
#7
Guest_steve_*
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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:13 PM
The USDA shows Ludwigia palustris to be native to Pennsylvania as well as most of NA. It's a very attractive plant and I've had pretty good luck with it. It even looks good growing emergent too. I'm not sure how well it would do with a lot of water movement in the tank though. I've always kept it in very low flow areas of a tank or in a tank without much flow at all other than HOB filters. I've only collected it from ponds or wetland areas where there isn't any flow.Aren't there a few ludwigia species that can be found in Pennsylvania as well?
#8
Guest_AMcCaleb_*
Guest_AMcCaleb_*
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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:59 AM
I've got palustris in my planted tank and it's right underneath my fx5 output. It bends from the current but it does ok. It might now be perfect for a riffle tank but then again, not many plants are.
#9
Sean Phillips
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- NANFA Member
- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 06 August 2014 - 07:21 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. My riffle tank doesn't have the fastest flow though like most do, the only flow is a sponge filter I don't have any powerheads on it so I think that opens my options a bit more.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
#10
Guest_swampfish_*
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Posted 07 August 2014 - 10:09 AM
Fast-flow and aerated water are not compatible with long-term survival of many plants. Lack of carbon dioxide is a limiting factor in aquatic plant growth. I use power filters on tanks where I am seriously growing plants to avoid stirring up the water and losing the carbon dioxide. I also root the plants in soil under gravel. The clay that was suggested works well too. My lights are on 12 hours per day and vary from fluorescent shop lights to compact fluorescent to T-5 fluorescent. All of them grow excess plants that I sell at fish auctions.
Phil Nixon
Phil Nixon
#11
Guest_gerald_*
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 07 August 2014 - 01:37 PM
The effect of flow and aeration depends on your plant's CO2 demand versus the CO2 output of fish and bacteria. If you have small or few fish and a lot of fast-growing plants, and you're not adding supplemental CO2 from a pressurized tank or yeast culture, then the plants may be uptaking all the CO2 as fast as it is produced, keeping it below the air-equilibrium concentration. In that case, water surface movement will INCREASE the CO2 available to the plants.
#12
Guest_steve_*
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Posted 08 August 2014 - 12:17 PM
Another way of getting enough CO2 to your plants is to let them grow emergent. Plants can use CO2 from the air easier than they can the water. I've got several tanks that I have 8"-9" between the top of the water and the lights where the plants grow 'wild and crazy' emergent. I've also got air stones in some of these tanks and it all seems to work out alright.
#13
Sean Phillips
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- NANFA Member
- Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA
Posted 10 August 2014 - 03:03 PM
As far as current goes in this tank I only have a sponge filter for aeration and don't have any powerheads. Yeah I know it's a weird riffle tank having plants and bit a lot if flow but meh...
As far as plant selection goes I think I'll be doing hornwort and some type of Val to start and add more once I see I'm doing good with them.
As far as plant selection goes I think I'll be doing hornwort and some type of Val to start and add more once I see I'm doing good with them.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage
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