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New -- with South Texas native aquarium for homeschool study (Texas Cichlid, Sailfin Mollies, catfish babies)


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#1 Guest_Frankentrina_*

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 08:00 PM

Hello, I am certainly glad I found this site-- it's been very helpful thus far, most of my searches yield only results for sport- and game-fish.

I've been keeping aquariums or around them since I was a child, my parents had a 50-gallon with gouramis, angels, cory-cats, loaches, and the occasional oddball like Tire-track (now "peacock") eels and banjo catfish.

I assisted with various tanks in jr. high science, our teacher was a registered wildlife rehabilitator, and we often set up local fauna tanks with crawfish, ghost shrimp, gambusia, frogs, snails, clams (which are a nightmare in the aquaria...I do NOT recommend them)...our most exotic specimen was a lesser siren (2-limbed salamander sort of thing).


I currently have set up a 29-gallon tank with plants from the San Marcos river (Hydrilla, Ludwigia, Cambomba, hair algae). Our tenants are: one 2.5-inch Texas Cichlid, three unidentified catfish fry (maybe black bullhead. started as half-inch "tadpoles", now the largest is 2 inches, after 2 months in captivity, others 1.5 inches), a constantly changing number and assortment of Gambusia and Sailfin Mollies, mainly feeders for the Cichlid.

Tank is filled half with tap water, and half with creek water where most of the fish were collected.

Former tenants: 3-4inch crawfish, released due to eating more of the fish than I would like, and a 1-inch crawfish, eaten by the larger crawfish. Pond snails, eaten by cichlid.

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Our summer project has been quite educational for all of us! My boys (ages 14 and 10) are both in public school, but we supplement with many "homeschool" activities, most of our recreation is educational.

First off, I had no idea we had any native cichlids. I was only familiar with the south/central-american, and african species. On a trip to the creek, while I was turning stones, my son netted what he thought was a small "perch" (I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but in Texas, "perch" is to fish what "coke" is to carbonated beverages. Anything not immediately recognizable as a bass, catfish, carp, or minnow is a perch. Also, "minnow" is the generic term used for most small silver-y (bait) fish.) We brought it home with our little cats, put it in the tank, and I got to researching... after many fruitless searches, realized the fins resembled a cichlid more than the perch and sunfish I was looking up. It's grown about a half inch or more in the 2 months or so we've had it. It seems to be doing quite well, cleaned off all the "hairy" rocks I had collected, busies itself with rearranging the gravel and chasing the cats off it's favorite spots, but dosen't otherwise show much aggression to anybody that won't fit in it's mouth. The gambusia are there mostly for food. Anybody that survives should consider themselves lucky, or breeders for more food.

I've had difficulty identifying the baby cats. I found them underneath stones in the rocky creek bed, very shallow running water. We thought they were tadpoles at first, some no more than a half-inch long, and black. Collected 3, they've all survived, and enjoy glutting themselves on whatever food gets left by the other fish, and often coming to the surface to feed with the mollies. Flake food and cichlid pellets.

Above fish and crawfish were all collected in the creeks that run through the city parks in Lockhart, TX.

I also had no idea Mollies were native here! They are my most recent additions, found at Palmetto State Park in Ottine, TX. I noticed fish splashing in a shallow area between a well/fountain and a larger pond that feeds into the oxbow lake, and thought they were young sunfish or perch. On closer inspection I thought they were overgrown Gambusia (I have collected some rather large ones in cattle ponds). After netting and placing in bags, I realized they were Mollies. I was only able to collect females on my first trip-- one large (2.5-3 inch) female and many smaller females. But in the remaining school, I could see several males with brilliantly-colored long fins... gold, orange, and blue, which had me confused since I could not find pictures that matched what I was seeing in wild populations. I assumed them to be pet-shop mollies released and thriving, or some sort of hybrid.
Today was my second trip, and since I had my older son with me, I was able to collaborate and corner more of the mollies amongst the weeds. The larger, dominant males still evaded me, but I was able to collect a few small males, and one large female with an orange patch on her dorsal.

---Question about Mollies:
In Sailfins, do the dorsal fins grow longer with age? The males I collected are very obviously green sailfin mollies, but the fin is fairly short. They are all an inch or less. They may still be adjusting, but none appear to be courting the females yet.

---I just took some fresh pictures to post, and found the large female is not doing well. She was missing a few scales when I introduced them to the tank, now she appears to have a bloody discharge from above and behind the head, I'm guessing a bite from the cichlid, he seems to have her under hack, but not bothering any of the other smaller mollies. I haven't got a secondary tank to move her to right now. Ah, well, I always expect to have a few losses. The younger guys are all doing well.

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Photos:

20-gal Tank setup with original incadecent bulbs. This hood did not fit properly and I've since upgraded to a 29g. with LEDs.
tank2.jpg

The cichlid
cichlid01.jpg

The largest of the catfish babies. That's maybe a 3-4 inch flowerpot.
catfish01.jpg

Mollies--
Male, a little over an inch long. This is the most colorful male I caught, there were full-grown ones much more colorful.
molly_male01.jpg

Female molly, netted for inspection after being wounded by the cichlid. I have not found any photos of wild mollies with this sort of coloration. Only a few individuals in the colony were colored.
molly_female_gold01.jpg

Edited by Frankentrina, 06 August 2014 - 08:06 PM.


#2 Guest_Sunfish catcher 321_*

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 08:45 PM

I suggest that you id in the field is the catfishs tale forked or rounded

#3 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:51 PM

Welcome South Texas, glad to have you here with us. People are always amazed at what lives right there in their streams. That's one of our big messages here at NANFA... appreciate your local fish... learn what they are... learn about them... and then tell others so that we can all work to protect them and their habitat.

If you haven't done so yet, think about looking over at the main NANFA web page and joining us. THere is also a lot of additional information over there... documentation, pictures, and people you can connect with locally.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#4 Guest_swampfish_*

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 09:50 AM

Many of the male sailfin mollies will be "sneaker" males. They will not develop into primary males with long fins. They get along by looking like females and mating as they can without being challenged by the primary male.

Phil Nixon

#5 Guest_trygon_*

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 10:58 AM

In other words metro males.

#6 Guest_Sunfish catcher 321_*

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 12:23 PM

I think it is a tadpole madtom.

#7 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 01:19 PM

Mollies do best with high mineral content. I've heard that most of TX has hard water (good for mollies) but if by chance your tap water is too soft (Calcium-Magnesium hardness less than 4 degrees GH (around 70 mg/L) it could be weaken the mollie's ability to fight off infection. Yes the males' fins will get proportionately larger as they grow, depending on dominance status. I think your catfish is a bullhead, but check the shape of the adipose fin to see if it might be a madtom.

Charles Clapsaddle has some photos and info on various wild molly populations:
http://goliadfarms.c...h/wild-species/
... and this one: http://goliadfarms.c...mustang-island/
He gave an excellent talk at our Raleigh Aquarium Soc workshop a few years ago.

#8 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 01:39 PM

I think it is a tadpole madtom.


No, definitely a bullhead
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#9 Guest_lilyea_*

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 01:47 PM

I agree that it is a bullhead. More specifically based on the light colored mandibular barbels it is a yellow bullhead (Ameiurus natalis).

#10 Guest_Frankentrina_*

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 04:58 PM

Thanks, all. The catfish all have a rounded tail fin. It's hard to get good solid pics of them because they're so active. One of the biggest downsides I see to digital cameras (aside from poor overal photo quality compared to 35mm) is the snapshot delay. Right now I only have my smartphone camera and a Samsung digital camera. I can try to get a better shot of one against a lighter background. I see a smaller one right now hanging out under the filter intake. They started very black when we found them, now they are showing more medium-grey color on the bodies. I've never had experience with babies before, and the only prior experience I have with cats is what I've caught rod and reel in my uncle's cattle tank out back of our property. I was told they were mudcats that my cousin had "rescued" so graciously from a drying mudhole of a tank on someone else's property and dumped into ours upwards of 20-30 years ago. Last time the tank went dry we went down there with a cast net and removed as many of the mudcats as we could from the 6-inches of water that remained and left them for the coons... there weren't any good stock fish left. My uncle was pretty POed about the well-meaning intentions of his nephew.

Once the cats get too large for my aquarium, we have a neighbor who would let us put them in her stock tank. I believe the tank my cousin's mudcats originated from, but it's devoid of any large fish right now that I know of, after having run completely dry. My husband wants to pitch the idea of also stocking it with sunfish. I dont know if they'd do that well in a muddy cow-pond though?

What are some good sources to be able to ID fish better in the field? I have Peterson's field guides for reptiles/amphibians, birds, and insects of south Texas, but I forget where I got them, and I haven't seen any decent paper field guides for non-sport fish. I do have a smartphone (Samsung Galaxy S3 with Android)... I make most of my IDs sitting here with hours of searching based on the knowledge I have of fish families and characteristics. I've been seeing fish in my SLEEP lately :P I generally know the basic families (bass, sunfish, perch, carp, catfish, suckers, livebearers, minnows) and what ought to be a native or exotic... pinning down the exact species within families is where I'm at now, once I learn what fish I'm seeing, then I can file that away and recall it later on in the field.


@gerald, Re: water hardness....
Yes, most municipal and well water sources in this area are extremely hard. I worked as a housekeeper for a while, had one client that did not have a water softener and wanted her black SLATE stone tiled walk-in shower spotlessly clean. She was upset with the job I did (best I could, not good enough for her) but nothing I had would take off the deposits without also eating the stone. The water here at our house is fairly hard, we can't wash our vehicles at home and it makes cleaning even the chrome and porcelain facilities a chore, plus it is flouridated and chlorinated, though not as much as "big city" municipalities. When I set up, I filled the tank half-way with tap water and let it sit a week, then we collected the creek water in gallon jugs and got the filter going before collecting and adding anything living.

I've done one water change since I first set it up, when I switched to the larger tank. I vacuumed the gravel first and discarded that water (maybe 20% of water volume), then used the remaining tank water to fill an ice chest to transfer the fish, and the gallon jugs to reserve and fill the new tank. Gravel was removed, rinsed, and transferred (I had some little shrimp-like critters living in the gravel, came in with plants I guess. I looked them up a long time ago but forgot the name.)...Recycled tank water was put in the new tank first, then algae rocks, "furniture", and live plants, filled remainer of way with tap water, water conditioner that came with the new tank added, and then fish. At that time, I only had the cichlid, crawfish, cats, and a few gambusia.

I have not tested our water, I will look for a test kit next time I am in town (I am 8 miles from any civilization, 30+ miles from the nearest large city (san marcos)).

So far only the adult Mollies have met any ill fate... the previous one had her tail lopped off by the crawfish, she seemed missing, then my son noticed her floating amongst the hydrilla, sans any tail at all. Which led to my decision to free mister crawfish. He also ate the smaller crawfish the kids found. He was relatively docile when observing them, payed the cichlid no mind when it came near... I guess he did his dirty work at night. I like the cichlid, I consider it much less "disposable" than the mollies and gambusia! He was our happy surprise, and I'd entertained the idea of keeping a cichlid aquarium for a while, but didnt think myself advanced enough, or had the space in many years.

Re: submissive molly males....
I figured that was the case. I know of that being the case in many other species and animals. A few staying "submissive" but sneaking their genes into the pool now and then. I was just curious if what I collected might grow to be as fancy as the large evasive males in the colony, so I won't have to remove them and risk stress or death. The younger fish seem to take better to their capture and transplantation than the fully-grown adults. I've lost both the adults I managed to catch so far (I dont want to risk killing any more!) but none of the littles.

The fish I've observed were even more colorful than those on the link you provided... or at least seemed to be so from my angle. The light and above-angle could have illuminated them such that the colors seemed more brilliant than they were, but they were beautiful little fish. I will have to see how well my regular camera can take above-water pictures. My husband used to have a water-proof Samsung camera but it finally gave up the ghost. My phone certainly dosent take very good pics! It is good to know that what I found are native fish, and not something introduced, or some weird hybrid freaks!

My large female is doing MUCH better today, swimming around freely with the rest of the mollies, the cichlid seems to have eased off his attacks. So far today I've only seen him busy with his normal activities of rock-moving, and catfish-chasing. He does seem to be spending more time hovering at the upper level than in the lower level where he usually stays.

#11 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 05:32 PM

Bullhead cats are efficient nocturnal predators. They are not the scavengers that some people think. Its tricky to create a workable community tank, and not all fish go well together.

There is a Petersons Field Guide to North American Fishes, you should be able to find it in a number of place (I bought mine on Amazon I think).
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#12 Guest_Frankentrina_*

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:24 PM

Thanks, Michael. They get pretty active at feeding time, moreso than they already are. Aside from the "minnows" (gambusia, mollies) that I've been adding to the tank, assorted water snails and other invertebrates such as insect larvae... I am feeding the fish both flakes, and cichlid pellets. The cats come up to the surface to snarf up flakes almost as quickly as the mollies do, sniff out pellets that get caught in the hydrilla, and then suck up any pellets that the cichlid misses in the gravel.

I need to collect some more live insect food, perhaps on a day when I don't have my kids with me. Aside from their own playing activities and doing some rod & reel fishing, the boys helped me collect the mollies on this last trip... it was much easier with 3 people working together to catch those wiley buggars! They would go up and down the "stream" area through the weeds, slipping past unless I had 2 dipnets set downstream in a V, our feet blocking the side areas, and my younger son and daughter upstream and walking along towards us to scare them down into the nets. The water was too shallow and too full of vegetation for me to want to "whisk" the nets through and actively catch the fish, I didnt want to disturb their environment. I'm not sure what the plants were that were growing there, they resembled horsetails, but were not segmented... just a single, tall slick stalk with no other defining leaves, flowers, or pods, about half the width of a pencil. Also some cattails and dwarf palmetto where the water got deeper, and some kind of whitish algae growth in the shallow, blue-green and hair algae in the deeper water. I will do a bit of photography next time I go, take my tripod and "good" camera.

My local Petsmart sells frozen bloodworms for the fish (the girl recommended them for the Betta I was buying for my daughter), should I purchase some to feed my tank, or just continue with the dried food, live small fish, and collecting insects?

We had some good entertainment a few weeks ago... I found a bucket outside that had filled with rainwater and mosquito larvae (it was a small trash can from under my desk that was left outside when we moved, so no risk of harmful contaminants)... and applied several of the larvae to the tank with a turkey baster while the kids watched. I didnt have any mollies at that time, but plenty of gambusia, and the cichlid also joined the feast.

I've uploaded a video of the fish to Youtube, maybe someone can make a more positive ID of the catfish from there.


#13 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:41 PM

The catfish is a bullhead. I am pretty certain it is a yellow bullhead as well. But some of the lesser known bullheads, Flat, and Snail have white chin barbels. I am not very familiar with either species or their distributions.

#14 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:47 PM

We have a policy against fish identification in home aquariums (it's to make sure that we support good collection practices of only taking home what you have properly identified). So I can't tell you that the yellow bullhead ID was always correct and never in doubt.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#15 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:51 PM

Mollies are so fascinating and so much more complicated than most people realize.
The whole concept of who's male and who isn't, who's dominant and who isn't, who gets big fins and who doesn't is a book waiting to be written. In haste, here's a few tidbit I've learned breeding wild florida mollies for 8 years;

In aquarium sized populations, only one male will grow the full sail. He is King and as long as he lives in health, all other males will be inferior and will never grow a sail. If the King dies, either the largest inferior males becomes King and grows a sail, OR, a large robust female will spontaneously grow a male organ, kill the inferior males, and he/she will be King and grow a sail.

You can almost always start a captive colony with only 2 or even only 1 female. That's because almost every adult female will be gravid so babies are guaranteed, plus in almost any sized group of females only, in good health and well fed, lacking a natural male, a sneaker male will appear.

In a large group, inferior males come and go, never growing large or living long, but there are always a few of different sizes lurking around around trying to avoid the King. These inferior males seem to be able to mate with lots of females in captivity. Don't know how much their genes contribute.

Mollies naturally limit their populations in times of stress. They may live for several years in marginal conditions but not reproduce as much or not at all. A large colony, neglected in captivity, dies off slowly of old age and withers out. No, I never done that, seen it. On the other hand, what I have done is take 3 medium sized individuals and turn them into a large colony of healthy large individuals by pampering them.

Pampering mean; large tank, extra filtration, lots of green plants and algae to nibble, no tank mates that eat babies and some extra hardness in the form of a few pieces of dried coral and limestone rocks.

#16 Guest_Frankentrina_*

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:34 PM

I appreciate that, Michael. I will do what I can to purchase a good field guide. Aside from my experiences catching crawfish in the bayous as a kid, I am new to this field.

I am just now getting some natural algae growth in the tank, but I've been swapping out my assortment of flat stones with heavy hair-algae growth on them. I take one or two from the creek where there are many present, leave them in the tank as part of the furniture until they are cropped down to the roots, then take the "empty" rock back to where I got it and replace it with a fresh one. Nobody seems to be interested in eating the hydrilla, I guess it's too tough. The Ludwigia gets nibbled occasionally, but otherwise it remains undisturbed. All the springs are still where I buried them in the gravel. In leu of algae rocks, I'll also add clumps of plain algae. My 4-year old daughter likes to watch the mollies nibble at the rocks, she says it looks like they are kissing them. Most of the rocks in the tank, and gravel are limestone, with some flint and quartz. I have one piece of iron-ore rock from my property, and a terra cotta clay pot.

I will pick up a water test kit soon.

#17 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 11:16 AM

This might help: http://www.fishesoft...org/checklists/
You can search by County or Watershed and get a list of local species, then click on each to see a description and drawing.
There's also a taxonomic key to the fishes if you want to try your patience with that.

If you know your water is pretty hard, there's probably no need to test hardness. However, even hard water can get acidic in an aquarium over time, so a cheap pH test kit (bromothymol blue liquid test) might be good to have.

Peas, sweet potato, zucchini, greens, etc are good mollie food too.

Nice beetle!

#18 Guest_Frankentrina_*

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:20 PM

Thanks for the tips! ...The fish sure didnt go for the bundle of baby spinach I put in one day... or at least the cichlid didnt, I didnt have the mollies at that time.

Did you see the video of the beetle on youtube, or just my icon? (I'm the only Frankentrina on the internet... so I'm easy to find on different sites, my youtube handle is also Frankentrina.) We encountered that thing several years ago, it dived my husband's head, then lit in a tree where I shot it down with the water hose. We scooped it up in a dish towel, brought it inside to take pics and it sat there cleaning itself. Lots of weird bugs out here. I find some large or unusual scarab beetles pretty often, and we have a wide variety of different borers/longhorn beetles.



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