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Hybrid creek chub

Started by Guest_NateTessler13_* , Sep 10 2014 08:58 AM

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13 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_NateTessler13_*

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:58 AM

Well, I've seen thousands of creek chub (Semotilus atromaculatus) and thousands ofcommon shiner (Luxilus cornutus) in my travels thus far, but last week I caught my first hybrid cross between the two species:

Posted Image

The fish had the shine and luster of a common shiner...but the head wasn't right. The mouth shape and size is that of a creek chub, but the scales don't quite match creek chub scales and the diagnostic black spot at the base of the dorsal fin is lacking. Below is a picture of one of the common shiners found throughout this stretch of stream in northeastern Michigan (lower Peninsula):

Posted Image

I didn't take time to photograph any of the creek chubs I found (although I kind of wish I would have laid all three - creek chub, common shiner, and hybrid - next to each other for a comparison photo). What do you guys think? Did I capture a hybrid?

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#2 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 02:07 PM

That's one odd looking fish.

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#3 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 02:35 PM

That's definitely what it looks like, and would be my guess too. I found an apparent Bluehead chub x White shiner in the upper Neuse basin north of Raleigh a few years ago. I imagine cross-fertilization among nest-sharers happens quite a lot, but only a few survive.

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#4 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 03:19 PM

We saw a lot of SRBD x Redside this past weekend in Red River Gorge Ky. A bunch of us fish nerds got together and had a good time. Many Chrosomus, and the hybrids were more common than the Clinostomus. Brian Z. speculated that this unfortunately meant that the redside dace were on their way out. There are many creeks there that tell the same tale. Brian kept some genetic material since this apparently disappearing population is also the southernmost population.

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#5 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 11:19 PM

First time I saw a picture of a semotilus/luxilus hybrid. I read online about fallfish/common mixes though.

I can see influence of both species in the top picture, but the bottom looks like a common to me.

I have enough time telling the younger silvery colored minnows apart without them crossing, And young semotilus and luxilus do look similar. *grumble* Just look at the fallfish and common comparison on this page. http://www.prep.unh....s/Carpenter.pdf you can still tell ol white eyes (my fallfish nickname due to their most recognizable trait when smaller) is a chub, but at that size just barely.

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#6 Guest_BenCantrell_*

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:46 AM

A friend of mine caught this in a river in northern Wisconsin that has large numbers of common shiners. It looks odd though, too slender and the nose is so sharp. Think it's a hybrid with something? The other minnows sampled there are creek chub, longnose dace, blacknose dace, hornyhead chub, golden shiner, central stoneroller, and largescale stoneroller.

Posted Image

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#7 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 11:21 AM

A friend of mine caught this in a river in northern Wisconsin that has large numbers of common shiners. It looks odd though, too slender and the nose is so sharp. Think it's a hybrid with something? The other minnows sampled there are creek chub, longnose dace, blacknose dace, hornyhead chub, golden shiner, central stoneroller, and largescale stoneroller.

Looks like Clinostoma was in the mix to me.

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#8 Guest_NateTessler13_*

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 04:15 AM

Ben, when I first looked at your fish, I thought to ask, "What kind of Notropis are in the area?" because I thought it would make sense that a rosyface shiner (or carmine shiner) might get in the mix with one of your local Luxilus since they both are known to use chub nests. But, I can see where Matt's going with the Clinostomus suggestion. The mouth on that fish is pretty big. Your hybrid minnow is stumping me at the moment.

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#9 scuba00

NANFA Guest

Fuquay Varina, NC

Posted 29 July 2020 - 02:32 PM

I found this old thread scouring the internet to identify a fish that my son caught in his crawdad trap. We set the homemade trap (made from a plastic Hi-C jug) in a very small, shallow creek here in central NC. I sent the photo to a few people and one said a shiner and the other said a chub. He has the bottom feeder chub mouth but the body/look of a shiner. So Im guessing this is a hybrid, similar to the one shown above? Any help is greatly appreciated!

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#10 scuba00

NANFA Guest

Fuquay Varina, NC

Posted 29 July 2020 - 02:33 PM

Photo didnt load!

Attached Files

A5A5B649-F58E-4B4C-867E-EB41A8EFE2DF.jpeg 101.2KB 2 downloads

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#11 Matt DeLaVega

Forum Staff

Ohio

Posted 29 July 2020 - 03:42 PM

It looks like it has Campostoma in it's lineage at least.

The member formerly known as Skipjack

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#12 UncleWillie

NANFA Member

Georgia

Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:47 AM

Looks like a bluehead chub (Nocomis leptocephalus) to me. At that angle, nothing screams hybrid to me - just a fat bluehead chub.

Willie P

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#13 Matt DeLaVega

Forum Staff

Ohio

Posted 30 July 2020 - 11:43 AM

Yeah, I think you are totally right Willie.

The member formerly known as Skipjack

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#14 gerald

Global Moderator

Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 01 August 2020 - 05:19 PM

If it's from the Cape Fear River basin (south and west of Fuquay) then it's a bluehead chub.

If it's from the Neuse River basin (north and east of Fuquay), it could be a bluehead (most likely) or perhaps a bull chub.

Anyway, that one looks a pure Nocomis chub, not a hybrid.

I found a bluehead chub x white shiner hybrid north of Raleigh several years ago.

Welcome to the NANFA forum, neighbor!

Gerald

EDIT: I just re-read "small shallow creek" ... that would be bluehead chub. Bull chubs are in bigger streams.

Go look for chub nests in May-June -- they're amazing to watch.

Gerald Pottern
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Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel