22 replies to this topic

[Sean Phillips]

After some good research I've seemed to stumble upon multiple sources ( mainly in nanfa) that say the best darters to breed if y want to get into darter breeding are either Johnnys or Fantails. Luckily, I have a group of 5 Johnnys and I'm fairly confident if I follow the correct steps that I can get them to spawn in the spring.

This is pretty much the setup they're currently in.

Tank Size: 20 High (24"x12"x16")
Substrate: Off-white Pea Gravel
Decorations: A bunch of smaller rocks with a few larger ones and some hornwort
Filtration: Sponge Filter
WCs: 50% weekly
Temp: Currently 68F (once I have my Fishroom setup in Jan and move the tank down there it'll probably get down into the low 50s in the winter.
pH: 7.6
Tankmates: None at the moment, I may be getting a school of flame chubs in dec that I'd house with them temporarily but that'd only be until I could setup a 20L for the chubs about a month later so it wouldn't interfere with breeding activity.

The only problem is that I think I have a bad sex ratio. I'm not certain I sexed them right but if the rule applies that females are smaller and less vividly colored than males, then I have 4 males and 1 female unfortunately. One of the males (however not the biggest strangely) is very dominant over the others and will often bully all the others, the female's dorsal fins are fairly torn up sadly and the other males don't get treated to well either, however nobody is injured to the point of injury or isolating themself. Though they are in my experience the most skittish darters I own or have owned and I have to be perfectly still when watching them lest they run and hide.

My plan is once I have my Fishroom setup that I'll move the tank down there and only have the female and either one or two males in the setup. I'd let the temp gradually drop to around 50-52 (lower if I can get in any farther down) and take the direct light down to roughly 6 hours a day. Feedings would only be once a day or once every other day at this point with frozen being their main diet. Come spring I'd raise the temperature up to 60-64 and the light up to about 10-12 hours a day and hope for spawning action. I'd feed them twice a day live foods now. The tank would be a thin layer of sand for the substrate in spread of gravel and have multiple rocks arranged in caves for spawning, since Johnnys are "upside down Spawners" there'd be plenty of room on the underside of the rocks suitable for laying eggs. If I see any eggs I'd remove the parents and leave the fry to hatch at which point I'd feed them very small foods until they grew large enough for frozen foods. That's pretty much what I plan on doing.

Does anyone see any problems in this or anything I should change for a better chance of spawning?

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[Ken]

When I have bred Johnmies I removed the eggs, placed them in a smaller tank leaning the stone against the back of the aquarium. Then as alot of cichlid people do, I placed an airstone close enough to have a current keeping the eggs clean but not so close the bubbles touch the eggs. Johnny fry are large enough to eat freshly hatched brine shrimp which is why I place them in a smaller tank. It keeps the food more concentrated.

[Betta132]

Not sure about how to breed them, but I do have one thing to chuck in. I have a Johnny darter, or what I'm pretty sure is a Johnny, and he apparently eats snails. Maybe add some snails? Might help get them in spawning mood. Mine likes MTS, but pond snails have thin shells and are easier to eat.

[Sean Phillips]

Update on my project. Stock has changed in my 20 tall and is now 4 make Johnnys and 3 very peaceful Gambusia affinis. I had to move the one female to her own 5.5 gallon to recover from the four males fighting for her, the males have also calmed down towards each other since. The female is recovering fine and starting to fatten up. My plan is to finish getting her plump and full of roe then scape the 5.5 so there's a single undercut slab rock in the center for a male to spawn under. Then I'll add a male to the 5.5G and hopefully the Winter-Summer warm up will be enough to trigger spawning. Is this still a good plan or should I give a single male his own tank and wait until he starts digging out a cave before I add the female? Also, the tanks (20 and 5.5) are both currently running at 66F, will a warmup from 66 to 70-74 be enough to trigger spawning?

[Sean Phillips]

Also, should I add the most dominant or the most peaceful of my 4 males with the female to breed? I'm afraid if I add the most peaceful that it might not be aggressive enough to breed but if I add the dominant male I'm afraid it'll beat up on the female. Either way I think the male will be easier on her than in the 20 since it won't have to fight over her anymore.

[Sean Phillips]

Not sure if this means anything but. The female has been going under the male's cave frequently and waves her pectoral fins very rapidly while watching the male. The male will just sit outside the cave and not seem to care. I'm not sure if this means the female wants to spawn and the male doesn't yet or if it's just some odd behavior. I've seen no signs of aggression whatsoever since adding a male yesterday.

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[Matt DeLaVega]

It sounds like some prespawn behavior to me, but I have never spawned them. I suspect when he starts turning black and she swells up it is about to happen.

[Sean Phillips]

The male seems to be somewhat possessive of his cave now. He's not leaving it to feed so I'll have to start target feeding into the cave so the male eats. The female is still coming out though. Hopefully the male will soon drakem up. I plan on raising the temp 1-2 F every week.

[Sean Phillips]

Just did the first WC and raised the temp to 64F. The male isn't darkening up or digging out his cave yet so I hope he will in the near future. Are there any sure fire ways to get these guys to spawn? I'm slowly raising the temperature and the photoperiod is 100% natural as I have the tank right next to my large sliding glass door (the curtains stay open 24/7/365) with egg crate on the tank so it magnifies the light coming in from the outside.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Hit them with lots of live food, Then raising temps and light cycle drastically may shock them into it. Often if you take pre spawn fish from the wild and bring them indoors, the change will cause a spawning frenzy. I have had it happen with stone rollers.

[Sean Phillips]

Hit them with lots of live food, Then raising temps and light cycle drastically may shock them into it. Often if you take pre spawn fish from the wild and bring them indoors, the change will cause a spawning frenzy. I have had it happen with stone rollers.

I've been feeding them both frozen bloodworms and live blackworms and the female is getting pretty gravid, I can actually see some of the eggs inside of her. I planned on breeding at least one group of wild caught darters very soon by bringing them in to captivity right before spawning season.

[Sean Phillips]

The male's dorsal fin is starting to get taller, that's a good sign!

[Sean Phillips]

At this point, the female is very gravid, the male is always staying in his cave and, his dorsal fin is raised. No signs of the male darkening yet though. My plan is going to be to jack up the temperature in one WC from 62-64 (what it is now) to 72-74 and hope that that triggers spawning, if not the temp will just drop again because of the location of the tank. When would be a good time to raise the temperature, now, mid March, end of March, April?

[guyswartwout]

Hi Sean,

 

I'm interested in what your Johnnies have been up to.

[Sean Phillips]

Hi Sean,
 
I'm interested in what your Johnnies have been up to.

Nothing yet. The male just sits under his rock all day and the female under her sponge filter. Neither of them really move much. I've been feeding live blackworms and tried jacking up the temp by 8 degrees multiple times but still, nothing.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Big water change?

[Sean Phillips]

Big water change?

I did a 75% with new 74 degree water.

[Betta132]

I know basically nothing about breeding darters, but I have an idea. If you're trying to give the darters signals that it's time to breed, why not add something else that's already breeding? You can sometimes get things to eat by showing them other fish that are eating, so maybe the same will work for breeding? Perhaps least killies... they're tiny, easily fended off, and prone to breeding like rabbits. Plus, the least killie fry might be a decent food source. 

[Sean Phillips]

I know basically nothing about breeding darters, but I have an idea. If you're trying to give the darters signals that it's time to breed, why not add something else that's already breeding? You can sometimes get things to eat by showing them other fish that are eating, so maybe the same will work for breeding? Perhaps least killies... they're tiny, easily fended off, and prone to breeding like rabbits. Plus, the least killie fry might be a decent food source.

Thats a good idea, I just worry about overloading the tank as it's only a 5.5g. I'll see if I can find any but my only LFS that regularly has them is closed for a while because one of the co-owners was stealing money to pay for the bills.

[Sean Phillips]

Until I get a small pond setup outside to put this pair in I'm going to put them in another one of my tanks because I'm in need of their 5.5g for another fish. Would a pair of ~2" johnnies do well in either of these setups for non breeding purposes (or maybe I'll get lucky and they'll breed in one)?

15 gallon (24"x12"x12")
Temp: 76f
pH: 7.6
Substrate: Sand
Filtration: Sponge
Decor: Large rocks, PVC, "driftwood", lots of surface/floating plants like hornwort and Cabomba
Tankmates: 3 female guppies (left from when this was a fry tank), 2 common bristlenose plecos, 7 juvenile angelfish (smallest ones entire body is penny sized including fins and largest's body alone nickel sized, they're just growouts)

Or

10 gallon (20"x10"x12")
Temp: 76f
pH: 7.6
Substrate: Sand
Filtration: Sponge
Decor: Large Driftwood, small rocks, fairly heavily planted
Tankmates: 6 Swordtails, 5 paleatus Corys, 1 aeneus Cory