21 replies to this topic

[hgward]

Hi, just curious if any of the guest or members on this forum had any good winter days chasing the little guys with hook and line in or near my area of Virginia. I am in a great area with three rivers Blackwater, Nottoway and Mehirin around me forming the headwaters of the Chowan to my south. Plenty of nearby farm and runoff and old millponds out the back door as well, Lake Prince is about 30 minutes east of me and Lake Gaston about 40 minutes west. Sand in the shoes is just over an hour east or southeast and the trout streams start about two hours west. Shaping up to be a fairly cold one this year. Rarely see any ice in anything other that he shallowest of ditches. I am seeing water temperature's in the mid to upper 40's depending on where I take my readings. Those reading usually don't happen till January. Regardless, I was thinking about giving it a go this winter as home maintenance is going to limit my trips to the mountains and most of the Rock fish have cleared the beach. I have done a half dozen or so overnight sets with my little minnow trap in some likely looking areas and nothing. I have read where some guys in colder areas than here, are having success with their nets. My trap sets have been made in water depths between 2.5' and 6'. I have been using balled up bead with Vienna sausage. If I can't catch them with that, I am starting to have my doubts as what I can do with my homemade paste or bits of worm on hook. Any thoughts or tips, short of wait till end of March, most welcome. Thanks, Hal

[bbrown]

Do you have any springs or small spring runs? In Oklahoma stream fish go deep and can be hard to find during the winter, but in small spring runs the fish are pretty active year round.

[Kanus]

First of all, not to derail your thread, but welcome to the forum! I'm Derek, the regional rep for Western Virginia. That's a nice area you've got down there. Much different from the stream systems up here in the mountains, but I love it down there too. Spent two weeks doing some surveys for endangered species in the Chowan drainage this summer and loved every minute.

I'd say you aren't likely to have much stumble into a minnow trap in these temperatures. Most of the fish have probably gone deeper, or are sitting in dead vegetation and leaves on the bottom. I'm sure if you took a dip net and started scooping up muck from the bottom, you could find some fish. They are certainly there, just groggy.

If you make it up towards the mountains and desire a collecting buddy, feel free to let me know. I never get enough of being out in the water.

[hgward]

BB and RRKanus. I had been speaking with a state fish and wildlife guy out of Williamsburg about Tidewater area springs and impoundment access on Hog Island. No luck on the springs or impoundments. The impoundments (tide dependent) can catch some warm water from nearby utility concern, but are closed for waterfowl season. Spring Grove, VA. (1 hr + N) has one but is owned by a Japanese water company and has been capped and blocked for many years. WNW to Waynesboro (2 hrs +) is the next closest springs I know of for now. There maybe be something west of the fall line and Richmond on the James, but at this point in time I don't know of any. I addition, the mission is based on being somewhat home bound this winter, so was hoping for some nearby success.

Some tidal salt marsh is within reasonable strike distance, does anyone think that would have a chance of being productive over the winter?

Derek thank you for the welcome and feel free to let me know if you get back in my area (Franklin) again. I have high hopes for the Nottoway just west of I-95 this coming spring. I just might have to get myself a dip net and plot a few more areas for the spring. My "winter" search found other post on the forum from others north of me having various winter success netting. Hook and line is more my thing, but hey, go whole hog right? Thanks guys.

[mikez]

this is not a direct answer to your question but FWIW, I live in Ma and fish year round. I get you're asking about micro and I'm answering sport angling but it's the winter aspect I'm addressing.

Us icefishermen have long been trapping bait through the ice with minnow traps. It's all about finding a spot where the bait is concentrated.

Bottom line, fish don't hibernate. Furthermore, they will feed all winter. Your job is finding the thermal refugia where a few degrees temp difference keeps the fish active.

[phishnter]

Hello sir. I live in Chesterfield Virginia about an hour north and west of you. I fish in many small streams and ponds in my area and rarely do I have a lot of success with hook and line during the winter months. I'd say from December through March are very unproductive for me. Other people may have success, just, not me. Hitting on what Derek said above, dipnetting can be very productive. To be honest, now a days when I 'go fishing' during the winter months, my fishing pole stays at home. I go armed with a nice sized dipnet, bucket, waders and boots. By dipnetting, you find all kinds of fish. I enjoy every minute of it. In fact, I've been wanting to hit up the Blackwater River and the Nottoway River for some time, I'm just not familiar with the area. I would also love to hit up the Dismal Swamp canals. I've heard they are loaded with fun fish, but again, not familiar enough with the area to set out on a trip down there. If you ever want to go, catch up with me.

[gerald]

I think many of our southern coastal plain fish species adapted to short winters and 85+ F in summer tend to be less active and less hungry in winter than northern species whose biochemistry is adapted for longer cold periods and lower maximum temps in summer. Just a guess ...

Us icefishermen have long been trapping bait through the ice with minnow traps. It's all about finding a spot where the bait is concentrated. Bottom line, fish don't hibernate. Furthermore, they will feed all winter. Your job is finding the thermal refugia where a few degrees temp difference keeps the fish active.

[mikez]

I think many of our southern coastal plain fish species adapted to short winters and 85+ F in summer tend to be less active and less hungry in winter than northern species whose biochemistry is adapted for longer cold periods and lower maximum temps in summer. Just a guess ...

That is an interesting and logical guess.
I can't answer directly, I have no knowledge or experience to confirm or deny.
I will say, anglers in the south have no trouble finding fish to catch year round where ever the laws allows. You may have to search out the temp refugia and refine your methods [conventional angler wisdom say "go small" in winter so micro-fishing is perfect].
Here in the frozen north, we find largemouth bass, the quintessential southern fish, very active under the ice. They hit lures, fight hard and come up with fresh food in their bellies.
We also seek out secret temp refugia in saltwater and catch striped bass which chose to remain behind when the main population migrated south. Not power plant hot water mind you [there's that too of course], but deep slow, maybe spring influenced natural refugia in certain rivers.
Bear in mind, in water more than a few feet deep, 39 F is the temp of the water on the bottom, even under ice, 39 degres being the temp at which water is most dense and sinks below the colder.
My guess is, so long as you have reasonable depth, you can always find some 39 F water in the south in winter. I know for sure I can always find some up here, even though it's under 2 feet of ice and 2 more feet of snow.

[mikez]

I apologize for taking the sport angler point of view, I realize that's not exactly what the original poster was about. I do think the concepts carry over.

I bet hardy fishin' folks in the south who abandon the theory that fish don't bite in winter and go a searchin' will find all kinds of cool [cold?] stuff to catch.

[hgward]

Mikez I am inclined to agree with you as just a hour of so before sunset, I am still seeing the same type of surface activity as seen in the beginning and end of this video. Looks like the start of a very concentrated rain in a small area. Not sure what species is coming to the surface to take a look, but I am pretty sure they are all suffering from lockjaw. I have also read a few post about winter active darters as far north as NJ.
Which kind of begs the question?
Pish how bad is bad or as you say "unproductive"? Consistent skunks or the random one, two fish per hour? Dip nets, you say. I will do a search on this forum and see what's available and related cost. Is there any one make or brand that you like or that other dip netters consider the standard? Chesterfield, anytime. I have a kid going to school in Petersburg and am frequently picking her up from after school activities. I have also done some scouting on Stony Creek. Many of my Nottoway sites are off of 95 just west of Jarrett. I have found a nice concentration of red eye Rock Bass in those waters in the warmer months. Love the way even the little guys hit like a truck! Further down river plenty of people are still finding Megalodon teeth, might get lucky with a dip net! Regardless, open invite anytime.
gerald that is a heck of a guess and somewhat takes the onus off my angling skills. So thanks for the excuse.
Mikez I do go small. I am using Japanese tanago or bitterling gear. Main line test between 0.8-1.2 pound and snelled hooks .32-0.4 pound test. If the lines weren't black I could not see them. Hook points about 1mm. Most of my floats are under an inch in length and between 3-6 mm in diameter. The rod is leaning towards the longer end of tanago rods at 5' in length and just over 0.6 mm at the tip and 6 mm at the base. My current go to rod has more glass than carbon in it. It's a trip to have 1.5" fish put a bend in your rod. Sport angling does not offend me and as you may know, this type fishing is considered a sport in Japan. I normally fish this rig to a max depth of 6-6.5'.
As much as I enjoy this type fishing, I will start my search for a suitable dip net and thermometer. I asked above about standards in dip nets, any recommendations on thermometers? Thanks again guys for all the thoughts and advice.

[Matt DeLaVega]

This is my basic thermometer. The brand may differ. http://www.vailvalle...R4K4aAo-Q8P8HAQ

Dipnets, I am a fan of our friend and member, Mark Binkley's Perfect dipnet. http://jonahsaquariu...e/netdipnet.htm
Mark's dipnets are very durable, and well made. They are not as cheap as some you may find at a sporting goods store, but you get what you pay for. I like the black 1/8 ace netting. I have had mine since 2007 and it is in good shape. Sporting good store nets might be 1/3 the cost but you will be lucky to make it a season with it. Check out his site. He has some good fish for sale on there as well. I am in no way affiliated with "Jonah's Aquarium", I just like his nets.

Ben Cantrell is the resident micro guru here PM him. He will be glad to help you out. He has well over 200 species on his micro lifelist.

And last but certainly not least is the Va. NANFA rep. Derek Wheaton (Kanus). Fantastic guy and he can certainly direct you to areas to find specific species. He works in fisheries professionally in your state, travels all around and can help you out in many ways.

Good luck.

[gzeiger]

I'll also pitch those Perfect Dipnets from Jonah's. The key features that make it so much superior to all others are the protected mesh around the hoop (if you scrape the bottom with it, you're scraping metal not mesh, which means it never tears while conventional nets get holes in mere weeks of this treatment), and the detachable handle pieces that make it convenient to travel with.

[hgward]

Thanks for the link. Yes the protected net edge is smart. I remember wearing out a few blue crab dip nets as a kid, catching them off bulkheads with related barnacles. Chicken wire dipper put that issue to rest. Safe to assume most are using the larger net and color is a matter of individual taste?

I have read most if not all of Ben's VA/NC trip postings. Looked at some his other area winter post as well, seems most were ice related. Derek didn't really derail my plans. Hey I am stupid and will sit somewhere until I catch something even if its pneumonia. Or maybe end like that frozen guy Redford found in the Jeremiah Johnson movie. Have a note pinned on my jacket "kilt by a micro. Who ever finds me can have my Nissin rod and maybe use it to catch the micro that kilt me." I am sure some of you hard core types can relate.

Anyone ever try disturbing a leaf pile or bottom area, then letting it rest for a few and then dropping a hook.? If their the groggy are they going scatter far? If they are up they might as well grab a bite to eat, right? Just thinking out loud. Wonder if you can chum them more awake? Constructive criticism, thoughts and opinions always welcome.

[mikez]

Wow, you Euro-techno folks impress me with your devotion to TINY.

I see no reason you shouldn't catch stuff year round anywhere in the USA with such gear. You won't find 'em in the same places as summer but do your homework and the sky's the limit.

From an angling point of view, historically, hardy renegades that seek out previously unknown winter fisheries have been known to stumble upon some pretty fast fishing in places local lore has the fish fast asleep for the winter.

[Kanus]

Jonah's Perfect Dipnet is a pretty standard-issue weapon for members of the NANFA army. I bought a pair of them in 2007 and have used them consistently ever since without replacing even a net mesh. I'm not sure if he has changed his construction since then, but if I were him, I would've made them SLIGHTLY less durable so at least people would have to buy new ones every now and then. Making them basically invincible and relying on us to lose them as his sole way of getting repeat business doesn't seem like the best business plan to me, but oh well

I'm not complaining!!!

[hgward]

Geez Derek, major bromance going on this site for Mark's dip nets. I am believer, just sent him email on shipping cost to see if I could work it into the already blown Christmas budget. Quite the testimony/endorsement on 7 yr. old nets!

I am going to give it go Mike in all way imaginable.

[gzeiger]

I used to buy a new $25 net every 8-10 weeks. I bought one from Jonah's in 2009 and it's still good as new. Thinking about getting a longer-handled one and maybe trying a different color. There was some interesting speculation in another thread about when it would be best to use light and dark mesh (I can't imagine black vs green matters though).

[gerald]

My Jonah's net from the 2004 convention in SC is still holding up. AquaticEco in FL sells a similar monorail-type net (frame protects the net edge) with 1/8" mesh but the handle is thin-wall aluminum and the net frame attaches with two small screws -- not a sturdy yoke like Jonah's. On the subject of winter (weren't we talking about winter at some point?) - be careful about netting fish when air temp is below freezing. Small fish can freeze to the net in less than a minute if you dont get them into water quickly.

[gzeiger]

I've definitely had that happen, even in coastal SC. Even if they don't actually freeze the stress can kill them. A measuring cup or similar dipping device to remove them without bringing them out of the water helps.

[mikez]

In the event you do accidently stun a fish in your net with cold air and it goes belly up, don't be so quick to toss the body. Depending on species, some fish bounce back amazingly when warmed up.