24 replies to this topic

[yasha]

Hello
I was wandering if any of you maybe able to ID these young sunfish.
I was thinking at 1st that they were a pet fish like a dempsey or cichlid but had a pet fish forum ID them as sunfish.

Are they in fact sunfish and if so can you tell what type or are they still to small? There about the size of a dine right now. There were 2 I took picture of but I'm not sure what picture is what fish. The pictures maybe of both fish or just of 1 of the two I can't be sure. I'm starting to see what likes like it maybe a black dot on one. It is more visible on 1 side then the other. You can kind of see it in the middle of the fishes body in the 1st picture. They also are kind of see throw with like strips on them. One more then the other seems to have a black border around it's top fin.

Sunns the 1st picture is the newest. fish2 is older picture.

I got them as feeder goldfish US, MI as they were with feeders tho is not really sure if there from this area or not. I'm also not sure if I should post this here or in the bass and sunfish area. As I found the fourm by someone asking about a sunfish that looked kind of like mind on that part of the forum.

Attached Files

•  Sunns.jpg   91.84KB   7 downloads
•  Fish2.jpg   77.83KB   6 downloads

Edited by yasha, 17 December 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[gerald]

Green sunfish, Lepomis cyanellus -- very common in feeder fish shipments. Note the large mouth, "plaid" body pattern, white edging on fins. They will get much more colorful once they settle in. Greens make great pets - very responsive to their keeper, much like an oscar.

[yasha]

Thank you. Thats very helpful to know what they are. I will need it know what size cage they would need when growen. I think there two cute to be turtle food. Do you know how long it takes for them to get full size? I know there a smaller sunfish then most but still not a small fish.
Also thank you for the description of how to tell what they are when there so young. I've seen some pictures that looked alot like them that said blue gill now I have to look closer to tell if the fish looks diffrent or if the picture was miss titled as a blue gill.
I had 3 of them in the 20 gallon with the goldfish sadly the one that was most friendly disappeared. I'm guessing it jumped out as I have no other way of explaining it. I couldn't find a body anywhere but he was also small and we do have cats that could have ate him. :/ Its sad. Him and one of the gold fish would pick on my arm when I clean the cage and he would always be the 1st to get fed when I walked by the cage he liked to follow. These 2 hide in the back under the roots of a weeping willow I'm rooting in the tank.
I used to have oscars they were really nice size before we rehomed them. They also used to knock the led off the tank so we had to keep rocks on it. lol They also loved to bite at hands.
I'm sure know I know what type they are if there that common I could find some info on how to care for them as pets but if you have any info/link you think I may need to know I'd gladly take them.
By the way is it ok to keep them as a pet being as they were not wild caught? I do belive its illegal to have native caught ones or atleast thats what I was told by someone years ago when my family had what we were told was a blue gill. He also was very fun to watch lived with a pound louch we had they both had personalities the oscars did also.
If I do keep them is the goldfish flacks ok or should I be feeding them something diffrent? our Oscar and Blue Gill (if thats really what he was) used to eat gold fish but they were well over hand size at that time and had guppys when they were smaller but these guys are to small for guppys.

Again thank you

Edited by yasha, 17 December 2014 - 04:36 PM.

[gerald]

Different states have different laws about keeping "game fish". Many states allow you to keep them if caught on hook & line, or purchased from a licensed fish farm, but not wild-caught by net or trap. If you bought it as an "accidental contaminant" in a pet shop, that's usually a "gray area" that most state laws don't really address. However, some states are absolutely adamant about NOT keeping any game fish or even native non-game fish. If you're in a state that does allow natives to be kept, keep the store receipt and these pics so you have evidence that they were not wild caught. You probably cannot "sell, trade, or barter" game fish without a dealer's license - I think that's the law in all states. A NANFA member from your state may be able to give better advice. When he's full grown you'll probably want a 40 gal or larger tank.

another suggestion to cover your backside: save a "screenshot" of your first post above, with the forum heading, date, and photos.

[yasha]

Ok thank you.
Right now I have 2 and there with some goldfish in a odd sized tank a little smaller then a 29 gallon. I just need to find out how long it would be safe to keep them in there (how fast there grow) before moving them to a bigger tank. I have a tank about 5 feet long or so I can put up but there's alot going on were wait/looking for a new house and dealing with midical problems that means I have to wait on the bigger tank. I'm thinking with how slow there growing right now they will be ok in this tank for a few months but don't want to hurt them by keeping them in to small a tank for to long. I've had them for a month and a half and there still not bigger then a dime or my finger tip and I have small hands the gold fish however had gone from that small to about 2X there size if not more. He may think of them as food soon if these growth for him/them keeps this way however for now he's still being run off by them if heg et in there face. The tank was going to be a plant rooting/molly tank but I liked these guys and a goldfish to much. I got them to feed to the turtles/make sure the tank was livable before being food for the turtles but I think i want them to live a happy life as pets now. Move them to the bigger tank when I can and then get my mollys. lol

There is some good ideas. The receipt just says that I got 6 gold fish so I don't think it would really be taken as proof I bought them but it still Isn't bad to keep it. I even asked the guy at the store what they were and he said they were gold fish. I think anyone that works with fish could see that there not but anyway.. Better safe then sorry however unlikely it is that there would be a problem.

I've only ever had a problem with my pigeon loft (WAY more visible then a fish tank) in a county that didn't even know there own rules it seems. They told me I couldn't have it but never could show a law saying I couldn't till about 3 years after the fact when they updated the law. I got out of that county. I didnt want to deal with the mess of the "law"(animal control) being wrong. I was younger at the time and it would have fell on my mom and dad. We just gave it moved them inside the house for a few years till I moved.

[gzeiger]

These will do fine in a tank with rooted plants and mollies. Once they get full sized the mollies will be less welcome (and molly fry will not survive with sunfish in the tank). Goldfish will not be able to eat them.

I'd recommend something more substantial than flakes as food. I've never tried keeping small sunfish on flakes - it may be possible at this size, but I'm not sure. They do learn fast from other fish, so if you have goldfish in there that are eating flakes they'll probably be fine. They'll certainly appreciate supplements if convenient though. Insects and guppy fry are often convenient. Small pellets can be good nutritionally, but it can be hard to teach them that a pellet is food since it doesn't have any of the things the fish will instinctively identify as prey behaviors.

[yasha]

They were eating fish flakes from day one im guessing. There are always 1st to attack the food. There to small to eat guppys right now but I was thinking about about getting a set of feeder guppys to put in there in hopes they would breed so they could eat the fry. Sadly the fish stores around here haven't been getting guppys in lately the suppliers just haven't had or been shipping them. All i can think of trying to find would be betta/firebully newt food (freeze dried bloodworms) or something. Its good to know I can try putting some mollys in there for now. I saw a molly that looked so nice but with only the one tank for now I wasn't sure if it was ok to try. I know that the molly and adult guppys cant stay in there for ever and not be hunted/food but right now they could easly live with guppys. I'm also training them to eat the flacks out of a food ring so they always know where the food is if I drop a pellet in there they may not see the differents and grab them up right away. I did see some say cichlid pellets. What would be the best easy to get food to try for them?
As for plants right now all I have is a little patch of few inch tall fake grass, a few weeping willow cuttings, a few pothos and philodenderon cuttings. I really want to get some live water plants to add not sure what ones have to do more research on live plants for them.
Before now everything I saw just looking up sunfish care said cold water which wouldnt be good for mollies but looking up green sunfish I see some keeping them high 70 fahrenheit so mollies/guppys should be happy with them. I've just had them at room temp of low 70s all this time. it's 68-72f.

Thank you SO SO much for helping me. I've been looking around the forums and other sites for info and seem to just miss it or not find much very helpful for my questions.

[gzeiger]

Green sunfish in the wild are abundant in water temperatures up to the high 80s. I'm not saying that's good for them, but they will be fine in a normal tropical tank as long as you bring the temperature up slowly to give them time to get used to it.

Mollies likewise are common in areas where water temperature drops into the 50s. Again, it's not good for them, but they will do just fine at room temperature in an unheated indoor tank. I have a thriving colony of them with no heater (commercially obtained strains too, not wild-caught).

Cichlid pellets are fine nutritionally, but cichlids come in all kinds of sizes and so do their pellets. You just have to read the label to make sure you're getting something they can actually fit in their mouths. I don't doubt at this size that they are doing fine on flakes; you just need to know that that won't last as they grow. Freeze-dried bloodworms are also fine, especially if you keep feeding flakes too.

[yasha]

Thank you. I'll keep my eye out for some nice mollies (Sail-Fin Mollies was what I had my eye on and there large compared to the suns.) to add and if they have fry and the fry cant hide well it will be a nice pice of food for everyone. I'm worried the flacks aren't working very well for them as there growing so slow. The goldfish is growing just find on the flacks but there made for him so he should be ok on them. I do still like the idea of live food for even goldfish. I'll try to find some small cichlid pellets to try till I can give them some live food.

Thank you so much for all of the info. I know i've said it every reply but I am very happy your welling to help and give me so much useful info.

[yasha]

So one of the pet shops finely for in some guppys. They were all fry so my suns could actually eat them. They also were selling brine shrimp are they any good for them? What would happen if a little salt water got in to there tank? I read the brine shrimp are in salt water.

[Michael Wolfe]

They will eat the brine shrimp and the ones at the pet store are not in really salty water. You don't have to worry about that.

[yasha]

OK thank you.
I've seen some call brine shrimp just a snack. Is it in fact just a snack? Or would brine shrimp, guppys (when they can fit them in there mouth. They still cant eat the bigger fry) and flakes be a ok diet?

[Michael Wolfe]

Brine shrimp are rather variable... frozen ones are pretty nutritious... I use them a great deal for my juvenile bluespotted sunfish... these guys are only the size of a nickel or so... but they love to eat the frozen foods... some live ones in the local pet store have not been fed very much and don't have a lot of food value.

I think you can use frozen foods to really get some food in them that fits their mouths.

[Matt DeLaVega]

If you are not allergic, nothing refuses frozen bloodworms. Scuds can be found in small vegetated streams year round.

[yasha]

Thank you both
I was thinking about trying to breed the brine shrimp for them. I think it would be fun to try and they have fun hunting them(me watching). If I can make the brine shrimp more nutritious that would be nice but if not they will still be good entertainment for them and I. They really wanted to eat the guppys but couldn't get them in there mouth. The kept chasing them bitting at them but not nowhere with it. I had planed on breeding guppys/mollys for them when they get bigger.

I'll be getting the cichilds pellets and some bloodworms when I can find some. Would this work Tetra: Freeze Dried Food Bloodworms, 8 G or would I be better off trying to find the frozen ones?

[Michael Wolfe]

Freeze dried work if the sunnies get used to coming to the surface for the food (cause freeze dried don't sink). I have had a hard time occasionally, getting young Enneacanthus to come all the way to the top of a deeper tank that I keep some in. Also, my warmouth did not like to come to the surface when he was young (he pretty much eats anything now.

But if you can get them to recognize them and they come up to the surface (which is really a pretty natural behavior) then freeze dried is a good alternative.

[yasha]

Ok thank you.
They do come to the top and in the little feeding rings I made for the flakes. I moved the food rings one time and they weren't sure when the food was. They just sat where the rings used to be "like wheres my food?" so I moved them back. Mine like to stay around the top of my tank I'm guessing because thats were all my plant roots are and they like hangging out in them.

[Matt DeLaVega]

One food I have never really had much luck with at all was freeze dried tubifex. I must assume that I can't be the only one. The cubes did sink, but nobody really wanted them. Sorry to derail, but have any of you guys had a different experience?

[Michael Wolfe]

Hungry shiners and chubs make everything disappear. Including freeze dried tubifex. But I agree they are the least well taken. I did have some luck smashing them to the front glass very low and some of the darters pecked at them. But they are so light that the get knocked off in the flow and then the chubs eat em.

[gzeiger]

Mealworms are good for training to floating foods. Some float, some sink, and they look like food.

Buying live brine shrimp isn't a great long-term plan. It'll be expensive and require overly frequent trips to the store if nothing else. They are fun to watch though.

If you intend to breed feeders, I recommend convict cichlids rather than livebearers. They produce much great numbers and grow faster, and actually need less space.