19 replies to this topic

[Betta132]

(Yes, I know shiners aren't minnows, but I figure the minnow people know how to catch lightning bolts.)

How should I go about catching blacktail shiners without hurting them? I don't want to try fishing for them, they're little and fragile. Plus, I've seen them die from people accidentally foul-hooking them in the gill when the shiners attack their bait. I really don't want to do that.

I have a long-handled dipnet, buuut these are shiners. They move FAST. Would it help if I brought fish food to throw out in their direction?

Would one of these work? http://www.banggood....p-p-933417.htmlIt looks like it's a really wide, shallow net, and you lift it when the bait lures fish over it. From what I've seen of them, shiners are greedy idiots, and I'm betting I can just put the net wall a couple of inches below the surface and they'll go in. I know these guys love table shrimp (they go nutso if you try to fish with it), so that would probably make good bait.

[Michael Wolfe]

Shiners are minnows
Black tails are not at all delicate
Yes, that net will work
So would a seine and maybe even a minnow trap
Fly fishing with barbless hooks would also work
Greedy idiots it exactly correct!

[Betta132]

They are? Huh. My bad.

How small of a hook would I need to catch shiners? I'm guessing teeny. All I know about fly fishing sizes is that there's a size 32 hook that you could catch a half-grown neon tetra on. That seems a tad small for my purposes. Apparently it's for a thing they do in Japan, where the goal is to catch the smallest fish possible. As in, fish 3/4" long are trophies.

The shiners I'm after seem to average a bit over 2" long, and their mouths aren't terribly large. I really don't want to be hooking these guys through the head... I've been researching sunnies, and in a lot of the pictures of them caught on hooks, the hooks aren't just in the rim of the mouth, they're through the roof of the mouth in an area I'm pretty certain has bone in it.

I might try the net first, though it could be difficult to find a spot to dangle it over a river in order to haul it straight up.

Actually... would a bottle trap be considered a minnow trap, legally? You cut the top quarter off a soda bottle, shove it back in backwards, drill it full of holes, and put smelly food in. Usually used in aquariums to catch small, minnow-sized fish, but works in rivers. Works like a charm for greedy idiot fish and even many smart ones. Also attracts big fish to the captured minnows, but that's not the goal here. Most minnow traps I see for sale are net, and the site I'm looking at just states size regulations for one, nothing about if it has to be net or no. It just says "minnow trap".

[Matt DeLaVega]

Minnow is a generic term for all cyprinids, which in fact includes goldfish and carp.

[Michael Wolfe]

Actually... would a bottle trap be considered a minnow trap, legally? You cut the top quarter off a soda bottle, shove it back in backwards, drill it full of holes, and put smelly food in. Usually used in aquariums to catch small, minnow-sized fish, but works in rivers. Works like a charm for greedy idiot fish and even many smart ones. Also attracts big fish to the captured minnows, but that's not the goal here. Most minnow traps I see for sale are net, and the site I'm looking at just states size regulations for one, nothing about if it has to be net or no. It just says "minnow trap".

 

I would think that your soda bottle minnow trap would be legal (and would certainly be an easy thing to try for smaller minnows).  The best choice for minnows really would be a seine.

[Betta132]

Ok, good to know.

[Sean Phillips]

Shiners are minnows (family Cyprinidae) and in my experience aren't as hard to catch as you think. I catch mine with a seine but dipnets and traps can also be effective.

[Betta132]

How would you suggest I transport them? I expect at least an hour of shiner-chasing, but it's maybe a five-minute drive back. Would a 3g tank and an air pump work, or should I take my 10g? I plan to catch maybe 5ish at first so as not to add too much bio-load to the tank. Might grab a few more if I can find any little baby ones. The issue with bringing the 10g is simple: I am a small person, can't fit the 10g under one arm, and therefore can't walk around with my gear if I have a 10g with me. Since I'll be walking around a lot, I'd have to leave the 10g in one place and use the little 3g to transport fish to it.

[Sean Phillips]

How would you suggest I transport them? I expect at least an hour of shiner-chasing, but it's maybe a five-minute drive back. Would a 3g tank and an air pump work, or should I take my 10g? I plan to catch maybe 5ish at first so as not to add too much bio-load to the tank. Might grab a few more if I can find any little baby ones. The issue with bringing the 10g is simple: I am a small person, can't fit the 10g under one arm, and therefore can't walk around with my gear if I have a 10g with me. Since I'll be walking around a lot, I'd have to leave the 10g in one place and use the little 3g to transport fish to it.

I normally just use a couple gallon minnow bucket with an aerator. Though I have in the past taken the 30 minute walk downstream with them in one of those shoulder strap 1/2 gallon minnow containers without an aerator until I get back to our supplies.

[Matt DeLaVega]

A five gallon bucket or cooler on the bank. A wide mouth nalgene bottle with a strap taped to it so you can sling it around you while in the water. Catch fish put in bottle, transfer to cooler. Pretty simple. Many of us use salt in our coolers or buckets. Tablespoon of non iodized pure salt per 5 gallons. Cooler times of the year are better to take fish. Aerators help. So does a cooler, shallow water with more surface area= more gas exchange.

[Michael Wolfe]

Coolers are the easy way to go.  Even a small igloo can hold a half dozen fish for a couple of hours until you can get home and add a seasoned sponge filter.

[Betta132]

I know I can get a couple of foam coolers, and those are nice and light. Excellent!

Should I add an airstone?

[Michael Wolfe]

I'm not a fan of foam coolers, they are not really made to carry while full of water... i'm thinking of something more solid than that... that would maybe hold 4 or 5 gallons. n This would have a better handle and be more robust for hauling around.

[gzeiger]

What's wrong with the standard 5 gallon bucket? You can get them under $3 in the paint section of any hardware store, and their handles make them convenient to carry around. The extra height relative to a cooler requires a little attention when putting them in the car, to prevent tipping, but it's actually an advantage in the field since they can be set down in cool flowing water without floating so readily.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I think buckets are just fine for short trips or few fish. Otherwise coolers will keep the water temps down during the summer, and most coolers provide more surface area for better gas exchange. Otherwise nothing is wrong with buckets.

[Betta132]

Got some! 8 little guys, all under 2" long. There's an area of my spot where the water is about 2" deep in most spots, aside from several stream-like areas carved out during the dry part of the year. They're about net width. I just had to locate the resident shiner school and swipe the net through there. I'm sure it would have worked better if not for the fact that they could dart to the sides, but I still got these.

For the record, 56 degree water does nothing to slow baby blacktail shiners. Not even the teenies- I found a school of 3/4" babies still moving at normal speed. How are they doing that? I mean, they're cold-blooded, so their body temp is about environmental temp...

 

No, don't worry, I didn't mistake darters for shiners. I just photographed that darter because he was pretty. Also, these darters are pretty calm. I accidentally caught a few because I saw darting and thought they were shiners, and after a second or two of darting around, they calmed down and just sat there. I'm not sure if they were actually calm or they were hoping to be invisible. Either way, this big fella was happy to just sit in my hand for a minute and let me photograph him. I put them back, since they're sunny-food-sized and need fast water. Really fast. This group was sitting under a 2' waterfall.

Edited by Betta132, 22 February 2015 - 08:03 PM.

[Michael Wolfe]

Good job!  You got out in the environment, you found where the fish live, you tried to catch a few, had a little success, and best of all, you were smart enough to identify the fish you caught, and keep the ones you want and not keep the ones that you didn't.  And on top of that, you learned about all the fish, not just the ones you kept.  Way to go!

[Betta132]

Thanks!

I kinda wish people did this a bit more, it helps point out what fish like. Might help with the whole "but why can't I keep goldfish with my betta?" issues. If you go and look for them, it's incredibly obvious why different fish need different types of habitats. In fact... I now have a plan. Whenever I end up with a kid old enough to care for fish, we're setting up a darter tank and catching some darters. It's educational, it teaches responsibility, it's really fun, and you end up with a unique setup containing intelligent fish.

[Sean Phillips]

Definitely setup a darter tank eventually, they're endlessly entertaining! I can sit for hours watching me little female banded crawl around a floating spawning mop lookng for food in it and she always greets me at the glass. All my others can be just as curious as well.

[Betta132]

For anyone who ends up finding this via a search: 

Minnow traps hung near the surface are fairly effective. 

Spending a couple of hours cornering shiners with nets is fun and messy and fairly effective, though you'll get smaller ones this way. I recommend bringing a partner with another net. 

It's also really easy to catch shiners with hooks, if you have small enough hooks. Size 20 or under will catch you some adult ones. Flatten the barb down, put a bobber on so the bait is only a few inches under, and yank the second something bites. You'll catch them. I used bacon fat for bait, but anything eye-catching (pale or shiny) should get bites. Bring tweezers or such to remove the hook, they won't stay still and be easily de-hooked.