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Help Stocking a Quarry


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#1 Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips
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  • Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA

Posted 28 March 2015 - 11:36 AM

Wasn't sure where to put this so I figured this would be as good a place as any. Getting to my point, I've been discussing this with my local scuba club for several months now and I finally have everyone's approval, including the owner of the quarry. We dive at a local quarry that's about an hour north of us in western PA. This quarry is privately owned and the only people that aren't divers that get in are the Amish to catch their food and some local rednecks that know the woods well enough to get around all the gates.

The volume of surface water in this quarry is approximately 20 acres. The water is very clean and cool and fluctuates in temperature seasonaly from 32 to about 74 at the surface. The bottom normally stays between 36-58. The maximum depth of it is about 33 feet at the very lowest point with most areas staying between 5-20 feet. Visibility is very good, ranging on average from 5-20 feet. The lowest I've ever seen it was 1 foot after vicious storms and the best I've see it has been 50 feet. The substrate varies from a dirty sand and gravel mix close to shore to a thick layer of silt on the bottom of most of the quarry as you get past the largest weedline. There is also tons and tons of vegetation in the quarry, most of it is actually a very attractive color compared to most of the aquatic weeds you'd see growing in a lake or quarry.

Everyone loves diving here because of all the attractions we've sunk in it as well as the very healthy fish population. It contains trophy sized fish of every species that is present in it, the only downside is, there really isn't much diversity. While the divers enjoy seeing all of the large fish, we'd all like to see some more species of fish. A lot of the people who dive here are also tropical reef divers so they've told me they'd love to see some smaller and more peculiar species in here as well such as darters and shiners, but we'd also like some more larger species. I'm somewhat skeptical whether we could get a breeding population of darters going, but because of the large amount of plants, there are plenty of places for them to take refuge in.

Currently, every species that we've confirmed resides in here are the following. Bluegills, Pumpkinseeds, Largemouth Bass, Black Crappie, Yellow Bullheads, Brown Bullheads, Channel Catfish, and Northern Pike. There are also some kind of snails and mussels/clams in here plus your run of the mill macroinvertebrates.

Although that may seem like a decent amount of species, about 80% of dives you will only see bluegills and LMBs with the occasional crappie. I've only ever seen 1 pumpkinseed, 1 Northern Pike, 1 Brown Bullhead, 3 Yellow Bullheads, and 2 Channel Catfish in all of my some 25ish dives at this location.

Like I said, low diversity, but trophy fish are present. The average bluegill is 8-12" with the largest we've confirmed being 16". The average LMB is 12-24" and we've seen a 27-28" one. The average black crappie is 12-16" with the biggest being 18".

Because of this, myself and a couple other dive club members plus the owner are trying to figure out what fish to stock in here that will. A) Not decrease visibility whatsoever, this is a dive quarry above all else so vis needs to stay the same or if possible increase if there are any fish that will filter the water. And B) Not do anything to harm the trophy sized populations of the fish that are in here now. For example, no Green Sunfish because they'll compete for food with the trophy bass which are the most popular fish there. Because of these reasons, we must be careful about what we stock because if we put a reproducing population of anything that might do either of the two things I listed previously, I fear we may face some scorn from the owner and possibly be kicked out. So let's stay away from prolific and predatory fish like green sunfish or sifting fish that will cloud the bottom like carp and the messier suckers.

I'm no expert on stocking such large bodies of water, they simply put me in charge of this because I've been begging for more species and because I can ID more local species than anyone else in the club. One last thing about stocking though, while the catfish, pumpkinseeds, and northern pike aren't very common now, they are very popular so the club has told me if I can get their population numbers up, that would be appreciated as well, although it's not necessary. So, this is a list of species that I can obtain and transport to be stocked in the quarry. If anyone has any ideas for which of these fish to stock and how many, I would greatly appreciate your input!

Bluegills, Pumpkinseeds, Green Sunfish, Orangespotted Sunfish, Hybrid Sunfish, Black Crappie, White Crappie, Largemouth Bass, Smallmouth Bass, Rock Bass, Rainbow Trout, Brown Trout, Brook Trout, Yellow Perch, Walleye, Sauger, Rainbow Darters, Greenside Darters, Banded Darters, Variegate Darters, Johnny Darters, Fantail Darters, Blackside Darters, Longhead Darters, Logperch, Creek Chubs, River Chubs, Hornyhead Chubs, Emerald Shiners, Spottail Shiners, Mimic Shiners, Silver Shiners, Striped Shiners, Spotfin Shiners, Golden Shiners, Silverjaw Minnows, Bluntnose Minnows, Blacknose Dace, Longnose Dace, Redside Dace, Central Stoneroller, Common Carp, White Suckers, Northern Hogsuckers, Golden Redhorses, Silver Rehorses, Black Redhorses, Smallmouth Redhorses, River Redhorses, White Bass, Hybrid Striped Bass, White Perch, Northern Pike, Muskellunge, Grass Pickerel, Stonecats, Yellow Bullheads, Brown Bullheads, Channel Catfish, Flathead Catfish, Alewife, Gizzard Shad, Freshwater Drum, Ohio Lamprey, Brook Silverside, Mottled Sculpin, Longnose Gars, and Central Mudminnows.

As I said above, I don't need an absolute, final stock list yet, I just need some ideas for what kind of fish to stock that meet the requirements and in what quantity I'd stock them. I won't be stocking the quarry until the start of May. During the month of May, I plan to stock it the first, third, and fifth weekends, weather permitting, to make sure there are stable numbers of the stocked fish present.

For those of you that help me out with this, I am tremendously great for for your assistance! I'll admit I make a lot of threads asking for advice but this one is less focused on me and more as the scuba club as a whole. I have a feeling that the more species we can successfully stock, the more people will be as interested in our local species as they are ones from reefs. So on behalf of myself and the scuba club north, thank you guys!
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage

#2 Mysteryman

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 01:00 PM

Is there any chance of anything you stock being able to escape into local waters?



#3 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 01:04 PM

http://www.bigfishfa...artnership.html


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#4 Evan P

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 01:05 PM

Look into your state's laws. Even privately owned, man-made bpdies of water can be subject to regulation.
3,000-4,000 Gallon Pond Full of all sorts of spawning fishes! http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php/topic/13811-3560-gallon-native-fish-pond/page-3 
 

#5 Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips
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  • Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA

Posted 28 March 2015 - 01:18 PM

Is there any chance of anything you stock being able to escape into local waters?


No, it's pretty far from the nearest body of water, even an insane flood wouldn't get fish out of the quarry because the road going into the place is very hilly. It doesn't connect to any bodies of water but I believe it may be spring fed, even if it is though, there's no way even the smallest shiner could navigate it's way through an underground spring that's under a carpet of gravel and silt and up into another body of water.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage

#6 Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips
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  • Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA

Posted 28 March 2015 - 01:19 PM

http://www.bigfishfa...artnership.html


I'll have to look into that. Paddlefish are sketchy in PA because they're listed as endangered but they're not on the list of threatened and endangered fish which generally can't be possessed or imported.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage

#7 centrarchid

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 02:16 PM

Assuming you stay within legal boundaries particular to your state then I suggest you consider the following that I think can persist under pressure from a lentic Largemouth Bass population:  Brook Silversides, Log Perch, Rockbass and possibly Yellow Perch.  Many of the larger individuals of several other species might be able to persist but will likely not represent a viable population.  I have some experience with what you are considering but the Largemouth Bass tend to be a deal breaker for most species in a lake setting.  Some of the minnows might take although they will need cover patches likely in short supply if your quarry is anything like mine.  What about mudpuppies as they can be assume nightime targets for observation.  Some populations in northern Indiana are very dense even with a predator assemblage like you describe.


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#8 Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips
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  • Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA

Posted 28 March 2015 - 02:30 PM

Assuming you stay within legal boundaries particular to your state then I suggest you consider the following that I think can persist under pressure from a lentic Largemouth Bass population:  Brook Silversides, Log Perch, Rockbass and possibly Yellow Perch.  Many of the larger individuals of several other species might be able to persist but will likely not represent a viable population.  I have some experience with what you are considering but the Largemouth Bass tend to be a deal breaker for most species in a lake setting.  Some of the minnows might take although they will need cover patches likely in short supply if your quarry is anything like mine.  What about mudpuppies as they can be assume nightime targets for observation.  Some populations in northern Indiana are very dense even with a predator assemblage like you describe.


Thanks for the feedback! There is definitely plenty of cover in my quarry though, there are endless amounts of dense plants close to shore. I didn't think rock bass could reproduce without fine gravel though?
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage

#9 centrarchid

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 03:22 PM

Rockbass do not require gravel to produce fry.  Their problem will be having sufficient structure for fry to hang out in.  Some Rockbass populations may vary in their ability to persist in a lake setting.


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#10 Sean Phillips

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 03:34 PM

Rockbass do not require gravel to produce fry.  Their problem will be having sufficient structure for fry to hang out in.  Some Rockbass populations may vary in their ability to persist in a lake setting.


Plenty of structure. My scuba club has sunk a variety of things for divers and fish alike. There's several boats we've sunk, a moving truck, a jet ski, several training platforms, a fish condo, a pyramid of cinder blocks, and a few others things as well.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage

#11 mattknepley

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 04:40 PM

Whatever you decide, this is a pretty cool opportunity.
Matt Knepley
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#12 centrarchid

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 05:52 PM

Plenty of structure. My scuba club has sunk a variety of things for divers and fish alike. There's several boats we've sunk, a moving truck, a jet ski, several training platforms, a fish condo, a pyramid of cinder blocks, and a few others things as well.

Structure needed will have lots of stems and cracks.


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#13 Sean Phillips

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  • Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA

Posted 28 March 2015 - 06:17 PM

Structure needed will have lots of stems and cracks.


Not many trees around the quarry unfortunately. Just lots of plants for them to hide in. There's cracks I'm the cinder block structure.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage

#14 centrarchid

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 07:12 PM

What about water willow as in the herbaceous plant?


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#15 smilingfrog

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 09:15 PM

Not sure if they are native to your area or not, but Iowa darters are a colorful small species that might do well there.

#16 centrarchid

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 07:08 AM

If my rules applied, the fish need to not only be legal but also sourced from drainage quarry is in.  The latter not followed defeats intent of the law at the genetics level.


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#17 Sean Phillips

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 08:49 AM

Not sure if they are native to your area or not, but Iowa darters are a colorful small species that might do well there.


I love these guys but they're listed as endangered in pa.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage

#18 Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips
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  • Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA

Posted 29 March 2015 - 08:53 AM

If my rules applied, the fish need to not only be legal but also sourced from drainage quarry is in.  The latter not followed defeats intent of the law at the genetics level.


All the fish I listed can be found in the closest body of water which is still several miles away, it is a manmade quarry and with the geography around it I doubt fish will be going anywhere, though you are right, it's something to be concerned with if it was either closer to the nearest creek or was in a flatter area.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage

#19 centrarchid

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 09:19 AM

I have learned to make no assumptions about the possibilities of escapement.  Plan on it happening and making so resulting damage is minimized with escapes not being different from the population they will be emigrating to.  I used to be of the opinion some water bodies are sufficiently separate to deny escapement.  Lots of experience has taught me otherwise and some of that experience is easily on the scale you are considering.


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#20 Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips
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  • Allegheny River Drainage, Southwest PA

Posted 29 March 2015 - 09:34 AM

I have learned to make no assumptions about the possibilities of escapement.  Plan on it happening and making so resulting damage is minimized with escapes not being different from the population they will be emigrating to.  I used to be of the opinion some water bodies are sufficiently separate to deny escapement.  Lots of experience has taught me otherwise and some of that experience is easily on the scale you are considering.


I'm fully aware that fish can find their way into new places. Everyone in the scuba club honestly has no idea how we got a breeding population of northern pike or catfish in the quarry because originally the only fish the owner stocked were bluegills, crappies, and LMBs. But as I stated above, all the fish I've listed can be found in the surrounding bodies of water so there's really no fear of invasive species in this instance.
Sean Phillips - Pine Creek Watershed - Allegheny River Drainage




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