11 replies to this topic

[gymrat987654321]

Hi all. I'm thinking about building a small pond in my backyard and keeping some mosquitofish and sunfish in there. I'm thinking pumpkinseeds or bluegills. I don't have much experience with ponds so I'm not sure how big it would need to be. I don't have a lot of room so it can't be too big. I'd like to keep around 6-8 sunfish in there and an appropriate amount of mosquitofish. How big and how deep would this pond need to be to hold these fish and let them survive over the winter?

Edited by gymrat987654321, 16 June 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[loopsnj64]

Funny, i was considering doing the same thing (also live in NJ lol), if the pond is "small" i would NOT suggest the Lepomis sunfish, they will most likely be stunted, assuming territorial aggression doesn't kill the majority outright. Also Mosquitofish will harass any smaller species kept with them to death, and if they are added, are irremovable.

 

Depth: 3 feet minimum 

 

Gallons: at least 150 for SMALL FISH (under 5 inches) ONLY

 

Suggested fish species

 

Blackbanded or Bluespotted sunfish (assuming the pond is kept close to the house and, heavily planted, they feed on bugs, so the pond should be 1-2 years old with no there fish if these guys are added, or alternatively feeding live insects weekly, vulnerable to ice if precautions are not taken, though they are NJ natives)

 

Eastern Mudminnow (very hardy insect eater, unkillable when it comes to ice, mild mannered with other species)

 

Brook Stickleback (hardy, love mosquitos, will outcompete all other species, but breed frequently, males are spectacular in breeding color)

[gymrat987654321]

Thank you for your opinions. I was hoping to make this pond self sustaining which is why I thought about the mosquitofish and lepomis sunfish. I thought the mosquitofish would reproduce enough to give the lepomis enough food to eat. I do also like the idea of the blackbanded and bluespotted. I especially like the bluespotted sunfish. You mentioned the pond should be 1-2 years old before I add the fish. This makes it a little hard since the pond doesn't exist yet and I was hoping to have it ready as soon as possible. If I were to go with the lepomis sunfish. Do you think the eastern mudminnow and/or brook stickleback would provide enough food for them? Thank you. Anything else?

Edited by gymrat987654321, 17 June 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[littlen]

Not be a naysayer, but I'm going to disagree with some of the requirements for a pond ideally housing 6-8 lepomis.  As discussed in many threads, there are 1,001 ways to keep lepomis.  And what worked for one fishkeeper may not necessarily work for another fishkeeper.  Trial and error.

The bigger, the better.  150 would be tight for some of the bigger species but doable if you have a bigger footprint so there is plenty of space to spread out.  Deep is good and will help with overwintering.  But if you're willing to intervene with some modern technology, you can have a pond that is much shallower.   Even in a 150, there is enough room for lepomis to reach full size.

If you wanted to do that many sunfish and have a self-sustaining population of mosquito fish, you'll need a lot of vegetation for the mosquito fish to hide.  6-8 sunnies would do a great job decimating that population unless there was a refuge where only the mosquito fish could get.

I do like the Blackbanded/Bluespotted idea.  Adults of either species couldn't eat a mature female mosquito fish--allowing her to reproduce.  I disagree with the 1-2 years needed to have an established 'bug colony' in the pond for the mosquito fish/sunfish to eat.  As soon as your water is dechlorinated the bugs will move in.  Even faster if you 'seed' the tank with some from a nearby lake or pond.

You can absolutely have an established pond this summer.  But you should build it first, and give us a better physical description at that point.  We can then better inform you what will work/not work.

Good luck.

[loopsnj64]

Nevermind the Blackbanded sunfish (and other members of there genus), I just found that they are illegal, to keep them (only the desirable critters, first turtles and then these ), I would suggest the mudminnows/sticklebacks, as well as one larger, more active fish species (I cant think of any in particular, you might, have to go with the Lepomis idea)

[mattknepley]

Another pond option you may wish to begin with is a stock tank. Some of us keep fish in plastic 100 gallon or larger stock tanks such as you'd find at big box farm supply stores.

They have the advantages of being easier to install and clean than inground ponds, and are easier to move if need be. All you need to do is level the surface upon which it will sit; no extensive excavation. No, they aren't nearly as pretty as inground ponds, but they can be "cleaned up" surprisingly well; plants/flowers around them, lilies on the surface, etc. And if you decide you aren't happy with the results, or find yourself relocating, they are fairly simple to break down and move.

Now, my SC winters aren't quite what a Jersey winter can be, but my tank-pond has frozen ~5" deep in the winters with fish riding that out just fine. Summers do get hot, of course, but it is situated so as to be shaded in the hottest part of the day. Some of us have found that no aeration works best in the summer; not turning the water over allows a thermoclime to develop even in these small quarters that provides the fish a safe haven. I learned that trick from Michael Wolfe here at NANFA, and it works. It might not work with something shallower or sunnier, however. I will most certainly differ to Nick L in those regards.

I am not a master aqua-gardener, so my plants consist of Java Moss and Hornwort. String algae is a constant battle, but worthwhile in small amounts as some snails seem to prefer it as a location for feeding and laying eggs. (Yes, snails are your friends. Usually...)

As for the "livestock", I currently have two chunky Blackbanded Sunfish in there. There is third one who is smaller, but healthy. The two bigguns come out to say "Hi" every time I pass by the pond. The little dude only shows his face once every three weeks or so. Seriously, I get to the point where I figure he must've died, and out he'll swim. A handful of Carolina Darters reside there, too. It's possible an Eastern Mudminnow lurks at the bottom, but I tend to think not.

Other fauna include snails (pond and ramshorn) and various water bugs. Baby snails are probably the #1 source of food for the fish. Gambusia would be a good feeder fish to stock. I intend to add Ghost Shrimp from the same collection location the Blackbandeds came from; curious to see how that goes. Nick's right concerning the water bugs, who knows where they come from, but they'll get there. Of course, seeding the pond is a smart idea if you know you'll be needing a particular critter.

As for feeding the fish; I don't. OK, maybe I toss in a tiny grasshopper or some excess frozen chow I thawed for my inside fish, but only a couple times a week at most. Providence provides the vast majority of their grub, and they seem to like it that way.

Something to consider. Or not...

Edit, just saw Loops' post about Enneacanthus being illegal in NJ. If so, there are still plenty of neat fish out there, especially in the Lepomis group. You may need to rethink your inhabitants and/or pond design, but I'm sure you can come up with a pond you'll enjoy.

[loopsnj64]

Another pond option you may wish to begin with is a stock tank. Some of us keep fish in plastic 100 gallon or larger stock tanks such as you'd find at big box farm supply stores.

They have the advantages of being easier to install and clean than inground ponds, and are easier to move if need be. All you need to do is level the surface upon which it will sit; no extensive excavation. No, they aren't nearly as pretty as inground ponds, but they can be "cleaned up" surprisingly well; plants/flowers around them, lilies on the surface, etc. And if you decide you aren't happy with the results, or find yourself relocating, they are fairly simple to break down and move.

Now, my SC winters aren't quite what a Jersey winter can be, but my tank-pond has frozen ~5" deep in the winters with fish riding that out just fine. Summers do get hot, of course, but it is situated so as to be shaded in the hottest part of the day. Some of us have found that no aeration works best in the summer; not turning the water over allows a thermoclime to develop even in these small quarters that provides the fish a safe haven. I learned that trick from Michael Wolfe here at NANFA, and it works. It might not work with something shallower or sunnier, however. I will most certainly differ to Nick L in those regards.

I am not a master aqua-gardener, so my plants consist of Java Moss and Hornwort. String algae is a constant battle, but worthwhile in small amounts as some snails seem to prefer it as a location for feeding and laying eggs. (Yes, snails are your friends. Usually...)

As for the "livestock", I currently have two chunky Blackbanded Sunfish in there. There is third one who is smaller, but healthy. The two bigguns come out to say "Hi" every time I pass by the pond. The little dude only shows his face once every three weeks or so. Seriously, I get to the point where I figure he must've died, and out he'll swim. A handful of Carolina Darters reside there, too. It's possible an Eastern Mudminnow lurks at the bottom, but I tend to think not.

Other fauna include snails (pond and ramshorn) and various water bugs. Baby snails are probably the #1 source of food for the fish. Gambusia would be a good feeder fish to stock. I intend to add Ghost Shrimp from the same collection location the Blackbandeds came from; curious to see how that goes. Nick's right concerning the water bugs, who knows where they come from, but they'll get there. Of course, seeding the pond is a smart idea if you know you'll be needing a particular critter.

As for feeding the fish; I don't. OK, maybe I toss in a tiny grasshopper or some excess frozen chow I thawed for my inside fish, but only a couple times a week at most. Providence provides the vast majority of their grub, and they seem to like it that way.

Something to consider. Or not...

Edit, just saw Loops' post about Enneacanthus being illegal in NJ. If so, there are still plenty of neat fish out there, especially in the Lepomis group. You may need to rethink your inhabitants and/or pond design, but I'm sure you can come up with a pond you'll enjoy.

 

Update on on that, that law is actually no longer in effect, as heavily evidence by this collection trip

 http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php/topic/13871-new-jersey-pine-barrens-090713/?hl=pine 

[gymrat987654321]

 

Update on on that, that law is actually no longer in effect, as heavily evidence by this collection trip

 http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php/topic/13871-new-jersey-pine-barrens-090713/?hl=pine 

 

From my understanding of the law, it is still illegal to take these sunfish from the wild. Actually according to NJ law it believe it is illegal to take any fish from the wild and transport it to either an aquarium or another body of water without a specific permit and even then I'm not sure. What I was going to do was buy these fish from a private supplier which I believe would make everything legal. 

[loopsnj64]

 

From my understanding of the law, it is still illegal to take these sunfish from the wild. Actually according to NJ law it believe it is illegal to take any fish from the wild and transport it to either an aquarium or another body of water without a specific permit and even then I'm not sure. What I was going to do was buy these fish from a private supplier which I believe would make everything legal. 

 

Wanna know what that specific permit is, as far as i can tell, its a regular fishing license, this allows you to take most NJ species, with the exception of certain species, which MAY include blackbanded sunfish

[gymrat987654321]

 

Wanna know what that specific permit is, as far as i can tell, its a regular fishing license, this allows you to take most NJ species, with the exception of certain species, which MAY include blackbanded sunfish

 

 

 

I'm attaching 3 pictures from the state of nj website. The first talks about the permit needed. The second is about fish stocking. The third is about the sunfish limits. 

 

[loopsnj64]

Fiqured that blackbandeds (and other pine barrens sunnies) would be protected, I'm guessing  there is no problem with purchasing them from online then

 

Back to the subject of a pond, i agree with Mattknepley, an 100+ gallon stock tank would be the simplest, least expensive and most versatile choice for a pond liner

Edited by loopsnj64, 18 June 2015 - 06:05 PM.

[mattknepley]

Stocking permit is probably not a biggie, for $2 it's probably more of a formality. And I don't think a stock tank pond, especially if kept above ground, qualifies as "waters of the state" anyway. But I'm not a Jersey game warden, either.

Investigate the possibility of obtaining a scientific collecting permit. It's listed just below the stocking permit fee. I have one for SC; my dnr was very helpful and encouraging in my application process. Don't know how NJ would be. I am not a scientist, so per the state's instruction I write in "independent study" on my application. They then take my $10 and require me, at year's end, to provide a record of every collecting/sampling I make. Which I find very interesting and fun to do. Then I reapply in December. There is more, but the forum has had to read my descriptions of the process and benefits of this permit a few times already, so I'll skip elaborating on them again. I'll just add here that it allows me to take, possess, sacrifice, and/or maintain fishes for purposes of independent study. Since they (NJ) list the scientific collecting fee right there with other regs on the main page of their website they might be amenable if you approach them with a plan a little more sophisticated than something like saying, "Um, I want to catch fish..."

Last thought, if these regs are a significant departure from previous ones, you may want to consider posting them in the state regs portion of the forum.

Best of luck, and fwiw there are a lot of neat fishes that they list as bait ("all shiners", for example) that would make neat pond fish.