20 replies to this topic

[butch]

Is it just me or has the carps invaded and took over NANFA on Facebook?

[Josh Blaylock]

I'm going to start deleting that.  Though they are in the US, they are native and I'm sick of seeing it and hearing the whining. 

 

 

As a side note.  This is on the public facebook Group.  That group is not the Official NANFA page.

[butch]

Since when the common carps are native?

[butch]

Anyways, we do have problems with common carps especially when they're overpopulated leads to depleted all natural resources for the entire fish community. We have to hire commercial fishermen to remove/reduce the carp populations on several lakes.

[Josh Blaylock]

Since when the common carps are native?

 

Sorry, typo.  Not Native I meant

[BenCantrell]

I'm going to start deleting that.  Though they are in the US, they are native and I'm sick of seeing it and hearing the whining. 

 

 

As a side note.  This is on the public facebook Group.  That group is not the Official NANFA page.

 

So are we applying the same rules that the forum has to the facebook group?

 

I think sometimes it's good to let discussions run their course.  People don't like being censored too often.

[Josh Blaylock]

 

So are we applying the same rules that the forum has to the facebook group?

 

I think sometimes it's good to let discussions run their course.  People don't like being censored too often.

 

Sorta, but not really.  It's not the non-native discussion that's an issue.  It's the ensuing fighting, whining, etc..  But, if we let people post about 1 non-native, should we allow all?  Where do we draw the line?  Are we the North American Every Fish Association?  It's a slippery slop.....both sides.

 

Here's the thing, Ben.  Because that facebook group isn't the official page, we can't control what goes on it.  We can just delete stuff if needed.  I don't want to see things that other people post give NANFA a bad name.  I don't know who started it, but on many occasions I've thought about going to the Board to shut it down, because people fuss and fight and things get posted by non NANFA members that don't reflect our vision.  That group is not something I like.  

[BenCantrell]

Yeah, I say choose a set of rules and then stick to them.  No grey areas, it either fits within the rules or it doesn't.  I'm only playing devil's advocate because I know some people really don't like being censored without given a good reason, to the point that they'd leave the community over it.  As long as we tell them why the post is being pulled down, and we're consistent, then I'm all for it.

 

I'd also be fine if the group were removed completely.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I obviously stirred the pot. We have people shoving carp down our throats there. Saying round gobies are good, an no way to differentiate between those people and NANFA members. Not good.

[butch]

Perhaps that group should make their own page so they can talking about their love of the carp. I'm having a hard time to accept common carps as a "naturalized" species but that doesn't meant they're harmless to the ecosystems. I meant NANFA is all about protecting endemic native species, restoring the habitats, changing the fish management and even removing undesirable non native species.

[BenCantrell]

What if gobies do turn out to have a positive effect on some of the native fish in the Great Lakes?  What if silver and bighead carp filter feeding in the Mississippi River help remove nitrogen from the water?  Let's not dismiss people's ideas that are different from our own.  Maybe we'll learn something.

[butch]

Gobies outcompeted/outnumbered native sculpins and darters and prey on fish eggs and fingerlings. Smallmouth bass numbers are noticeably low since majority of bass are much older fish. Silver/bighead carps also competes with other filter feeding fishes and young fishes for same food sources. Not mentioned that they're a danger for boaters.

[Kanus]

I thought Bruce was heading up moderation and such on the facebook group. Have you taken that torch as well Joshua? Do you have a life? Or is this just another incentive to spend more time sitting next to your Coosa Bass?

[BenCantrell]

Gobies outcompeted/outnumbered native sculpins and darters and prey on fish eggs and fingerlings. Smallmouth bass numbers are noticeably low since majority of bass are much older fish. Silver/bighead carps also competes with other filter feeding fishes and young fishes for same food sources. Not mentioned that they're a danger for boaters.

 

I'm not trying to debate any of those points.  I'm saying we should listen to people instead of censoring anything that doesn't fit into the current way of thinking.

[Matt DeLaVega]

It is possible Ben, but it is rare that something introduced becomes a positive. Also things were perfect before man altered environments. To say that Asian carp introductions may help reduce excess nitrogen caused by humans is like putting a bandaid on a gunshot. Those people are welcome to their beliefs, and we should not throw the baby out with the bath water, but many facebookers do think that what is on that facebook page reflects the views of NANFA, which simply is not a truth.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I think I agree with you Ben. My thought that may be different is that it appears as a NANFA page. It is not. People should know that it is not. After my little stunt, Josh had 20+ people look at the official page right away. These people had no idea that this was not a NANFA page.

[BenCantrell]

Put some disclaimers on the page, maybe even one on the cover photo graphic, that say that people's comments do not reflect NANFA's values.  I just don't like the idea of sanitizing ideas that are different from conventional wisdom.

 

Sorry if I'm being a little crabby.  It struck a cord with me because I'm tired of hearing that all the Illinois River's woes are caused by Asian carp.  It's a huge distraction from issues that are more important - farm runoff (both from chemicals as well as pig crap), dredging the bottom for barge traffic, bank erosion (caused by boat traffic and lack of vegetation), floodplains levied off from the river and converted to farm fields, city sewer systems that can't handle major rains and have to dump raw sewage into the river, intentional and unintentional dumping of chemicals by various processing plants operating along the river, power plants with coal ash slurry ponds with only a levy separating them from the river, etc etc.  If we magically take every last common carp, silver carp, bighead carp, grass carp, black carp, goldfish, and round goby out of the river, none of those issues will have changed.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I agree with you 100%

 

I am not sure that since we don't even know who made the page that Josh or Bruce can even alter it.

 

Also though I do agree with you on the bigger picture, I can never condone introductions even by the government. Nor can I accept these fish as natives just because we have no way of getting rid of them. Or they have been here long enough, whatever that number of years is.

[FirstChAoS]

 

Sorta, but not really.  It's not the non-native discussion that's an issue.  It's the ensuing fighting, whining, etc..  

 

Well, Carp does have a second definition.

[Kanus]

 

 

I am not sure that since we don't even know who made the page that Josh or Bruce can even alter it.

 

 

 

 

I just looked at the list of members of the group and there is a drop down option to look at Admins. Bruce Stallsmith, Joshua Blaylock, Brian Zimmerman, and Jeremy Tiemann are the 4 administrators listed. I knew I wasn't crazy when I vaguely remembered reporting spam posts to Bruce. So we basically do have some control over the group as well as the page.