13 replies to this topic

[Gamekeeper]

Hey guys im new to the forum, also i am new to Natives but not new to fish keeping, Ive been keeping freshwater fishes of all sorts for the past 7 years and am still going strong I already know the procedures and what not to keep a tank started and keep it going, Also i am an avid outdoors man i enjoy hunting and fishing. Ive always admired how pretty and natural all the stream and lakes and ponds are and have always wanted to just take a chuck out and throw it in my house, which is basically what i plan on doing. So recently i just stripped down a plated tank i had full of community fish and very heavily planted and i plan on using this as my new native tank which is in my living room, its a 75g tank with a fluval FX5 a quad t5 grow light fixture and a 300w heater, this is basically my canvas for the tank. I plan on collecting plants, rocks and driftwood from a local (fairly large) pond as well as fish this is where my predicament comes in at my local pond any time i look into the water i always see the usual Bass, bluegill, and an occasional grass pike, to put it this way i have never seen any of the fish i see people talking about collecting on this fourm, like darters and dace (which i really want), i pretty sure their in their its just that i dont know where to place my traps or use a dip net, do i just dive in and hope for the best or are their certain feature i have to look for to catch these elusive fish, granted ive never taken a boat out on the pond (but i could if need be) so all my observations have been from the shore, they have to be in the pond right? im probably just not looking hard enough, the pond is not man made so their has to be more than just bass and bluegill right? i mean i know theirs more, two days ago i saw this massive carp probably a good 30-40lb and i sometimes see small fish darting around but in the blur they all look like bluegill fry, ive also seen yellow perch aswell. So my first problem is diversity of fish i don't know if i have that (i probably do i just don't know where to look) and my second concern is stocking the 75g basically what im hopping to have is a heavily planted community style tank with one or two big fishes and then a couple mid sized and then a bunch of smalls just a big community my problem is would their be risk of fish eating each other? what i was brainstorming for the main fish would be like a pumkinseed as kinda like the center piece and the rest im not sure about lol thats where you guys can help me out with some species that can work. Lol this is the problem with some of us anglers we completely forget about the diversity of fish we have and just chase the big game fish!

 

Sorry its alot to take it, but i could really use the advise and am open to ALL ideas!

 

Thanks!   

[Michael Wolfe]

Welcome Gamekeeper.  Nice to see someone that wants to start with a planted community tank.  I have my 75 set up as a planted stream tank and I think it is a great size for a community.

 

I'm not a big sunfish fan so I will let others jump in on that part.  But yes, the fish are out there... and yes, the smaller species are likely neat the edges of the pond in the heavy cover to avoid all those hungry big game fish.

 

Darters and Dace are both more likely to be found in streams than in ponds, they like the flowing water and are better designed to make their living in that habitat.  You might need to find the creek that feeds the pond and look there for them.

[mattknepley]

Mods: please review this (like you wouldn't ) and delete it if I'm out of bounds and/or mistaken in my reply...

Welcome Gamekeeper, and glad to have you aboard!

First, the frustrating news. Unless things have changed since this past fall, Massachusetts forbids the keeping of any temperate species of fish in aquaria. See the Code of MA Regulations. http://www.mass.gov/...shing.html#4.09 Scroll to CMR 4.09.2. "aquarium" and then all the way down to 4.09.27 in particular.

That put out there; there is a glimmer of hope. The spirit of the Mass. law is to protect fish and the environment (and "simplify" enforcement of same). It is also not a series of regs designed with the average citizen in mind. However, I get the impression you are a student. If so, see if you have access to a licensed professional (college prof, teacher, aquaculturist, etc) who may be able to design a more or less long-term experimental type situation that is valid for their profession. Develop and be able to articulate said experimental situation. Then identify and approach a sympathetic official within Mass. wildlife circles who can direct you toward an appropriate aquaculture or scientific permit. The regs didn't go too much into scientific permitting except to say that they couldn't be issued for "personal curiosity". You may need to be flexible, especially in regards to location of your tank(s). Honestly, given the tenor and amount of language in the regs, I don't think it'll help you, but it's worth a shot. Some states are very uptight about fish and game regs, and Mass. appears to be one. Odds are they have this angle shut down, too.

Beyond that, there is another way to appreciate your local fishes that you hinted at; get in there with them! Freshwater snorkeling is gaining a foothold in the US, but even if it wasn't, how much more fun could there be than to spend a summer day literally swimming around with the fishes and seeing those species you think you're missing? And perhaps you might enjoy microfishing. It's also a growing thing in the US and we have a couple superactive members here in NANFA who can steer you right. See the microfishing subsection of the forum, if you haven't already.

We do have a couple active Mass. NANFA members. Hopefully they'll chime in with better/more local insight.

I know this isn't the answer you wanted or expected, but NANFA prides itself on "being legal". Unfortunately, that is pretty prohibitive in some places.

[Gamekeeper]

Mods: please review this (like you wouldn't ) and delete it if I'm out of bounds and/or mistaken in my reply...

Welcome Gamekeeper, and glad to have you aboard!

First, the frustrating news. Unless things have changed since this past fall, Massachusetts forbids the keeping of any temperate species of fish in aquaria. See the Code of MA Regulations. http://www.mass.gov/...shing.html#4.09 Scroll to CMR 4.09.2. "aquarium" and then all the way down to 4.09.27 in particular.

That put out there; there is a glimmer of hope. The spirit of the Mass. law is to protect fish and the environment (and "simplify" enforcement of same). It is also not a series of regs designed with the average citizen in mind. However, I get the impression you are a student. If so, see if you have access to a licensed professional (college prof, teacher, aquaculturist, etc) who may be able to design a more or less long-term experimental type situation that is valid for their profession. Develop and be able to articulate said experimental situation. Then identify and approach a sympathetic official within Mass. wildlife circles who can direct you toward an appropriate aquaculture or scientific permit. The regs didn't go too much into scientific permitting except to say that they couldn't be issued for "personal curiosity". You may need to be flexible, especially in regards to location of your tank(s). Honestly, given the tenor and amount of language in the regs, I don't think it'll help you, but it's worth a shot. Some states are very uptight about fish and game regs, and Mass. appears to be one. Odds are they have this angle shut down, too.

Beyond that, there is another way to appreciate your local fishes that you hinted at; get in there with them! Freshwater snorkeling is gaining a foothold in the US, but even if it wasn't, how much more fun could there be than to spend a summer day literally swimming around with the fishes and seeing those species you think you're missing? And perhaps you might enjoy microfishing. It's also a growing thing in the US and we have a couple superactive members here in NANFA who can steer you right. See the microfishing subsection of the forum, if you haven't already.

We do have a couple active Mass. NANFA members. Hopefully they'll chime in with better/more local insight.

I know this isn't the answer you wanted or expected, but NANFA prides itself on "being legal". Unfortunately, that is pretty prohibitive in some places.

 

 

Oh dam thats a bummer, unfortunately im not a student so i dont think i can go down that route, If only i knew this before i went and ripped down my 75. Well i guess the only other way i see keeping them is if i ordered them online which i know some people on here do or is their anything against that? Well hopefully someone local can chime in on this, Oh yeah i also picked up microfishing a few weeks ago! i just use a long crappie pole some tippet and these tiny tanago hooks i ordered online, the pursuit of the smallest fish flips around everything ive known as a traditional angler!  

Edited by Gamekeeper, 04 July 2015 - 12:36 PM.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Sounds like you should get an aquaculture license. In Ohio it is only about $50 per year. If you happen to spawn some fish you can offset that cost.

[Gamekeeper]

Sounds like you should get an aquaculture license. In Ohio it is only about $50 per year. If you happen to spawn some fish you can offset that cost.

wow this is turning into a bigger investment than i originally thought 

[Matt DeLaVega]

With a bill of sale you may be OK. I would talk to someone. Uneducated people who move fish to other bodies of water are the big culprits. Also wildlife officers, it seems cannot be expected to be able to identify anything but game fish in their state, so some states seem to be making it illegal to have anything that an officer cannot easily ID. At least that is what I see, but maybe there are other reasons.

[Gamekeeper]

With a bill of sale you may be OK. I would talk to someone. Uneducated people who move fish to other bodies of water are the big culprits. Also wildlife officers, it seems cannot be expected to be able to identify anything but game fish in their state, so some states seem to be making it illegal to have anything that an officer cannot easily ID. At least that is what I see, but maybe there are other reasons.

Dam i was really looking forward to getting my hands dirty and going out and collecting but i guess i cant, this turned out to be a huge bummer but as a avid hunter i know the importance of following fish and wildlife laws in order to protect the resource. Is their anything about collecting plants? if i have to order the fish i can probably have some "wild" with the plants. Still waiting for someone in Mass to respond hopefully with some sort of good news!

[Matt DeLaVega]

You could net and release maybe. Then after you release, purchase the same fish. Kind of like having a replica made of your released trophy. If that is legal.

[Gamekeeper]

You could net and release maybe. Then after you release, purchase the same fish. Kind of like having a replica made of your released trophy. If that is legal.

Thats not a bad idea, simply catching documenting and releasing would be fun!

[mattknepley]

Talking to someone in Mass. Fish and Game, like Matt D said, is probably the best place to start. And keep their name and the date of the conversation written down. However it works out, I appreciate your willingness to work within the system; even when that system is not the most reasonable or best thought out. Not only does it help protect the animals and habitats in question, it helps protect another resource, the integrity of the individuals and organizations interacting with, appreciating, and utilizing those creatures as well.

Maybe you can scoot up to NH for NANFA's annual national convention next year. It'll be in NH. Maybe we can get a group together to stand on the MA/NH border and shout rude things towards Boston.

[Gamekeeper]

Talking to someone in Mass. Fish and Game, like Matt D said, is probably the best place to start. And keep their name and the date of the conversation written down. However it works out, I appreciate your willingness to work within the system; even when that system is not the most reasonable or best thought out. Not only does it help protect the animals and habitats in question, it helps protect another resource, the integrity of the individuals and organizations interacting with, appreciating, and utilizing those creatures as well.

Maybe you can scoot up to NH for NANFA's annual national convention next year. It'll be in NH. Maybe we can get a group together to stand on the MA/NH border and shout rude things towards Boston.

Ha! Don't think id be able to cross back into Mass if i did that!

[Michael Wolfe]

Thats not a bad idea, simply catching documenting and releasing would be fun!

Photo Tank!

[loopsnj64]

Yeah i was just at Lake Horicon today, thats what i did with the majority of my catch, (i kept a 3 inch grass pike & a pirate perch, which for now, share a growout tank), my dad took pictures of bluespotted sunfish & tessellated darters in a photo tank and released them, it wasn't easy due to the tea-colored water of a pine barrens lake.