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Id this Sunfish


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#1 Gamekeeper

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 08:11 PM

Caught it like 2 hours ago, at first glance it looked like a pumkinseed but it had significantly more blue on its body and its belly was a brighter orange it also didnt seem to have the lines on the face that ive seen in the regular pumkinseed, it was very pretty dont think ive ever caught anything as colorful as he was at my lake, wish i could have ID him on spot so i probably could have kept it in my 75 but hopefully id get an ID and go back try to catch it again! :D/ 

 

the picture came out bad with the flash on, but i didnt want to keep him out of water too long so i let him go.

 

Attached File  IMG_2896.JPG   130.44KB   1 downloads   



#2 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 08:40 PM

I think you just lucked into a particularly nice pumpkinseed.


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#3 Gamekeeper

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Posted 23 July 2015 - 09:05 PM

I think you just lucked into a particularly nice pumpkinseed.

could be that too lol



#4 Isaac Szabo

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:07 AM

I'm sure Matt's right. Looks like a pumpkinseed to me too. Nice fish!



#5 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 03:30 PM

We see quite a few hybrid sunfish photos. Nothing here screams hybrid to me, but I am not one of the better ID guys here. I would feel confident, and the next one that strikes you, have at it, as long as it is legal, which seems like it is from your previous documents.

 

I  appreciate your attitude and am sure most of the members here do as well. It is very nice to see people willing to work within the system. I encourage you to become a member, as you certainly seem like a good fit. Also next years convention is in New Hampshire. So if you have an interest in meeting fellow fish people, the cost of membership cuts down on the cost of the convention. So kind of a break even, plus you will get our quarterly publication and help support our educational and conservation grants. If not that is just fine too, Often money is tight, and some people are simply not joiners. I just can't help encouraging people to give it a shot. Please forgive me.


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#6 Gamekeeper

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 08:34 PM

We see quite a few hybrid sunfish photos. Nothing here screams hybrid to me, but I am not one of the better ID guys here. I would feel confident, and the next one that strikes you, have at it, as long as it is legal, which seems like it is from your previous documents.

 

I  appreciate your attitude and am sure most of the members here do as well. It is very nice to see people willing to work within the system. I encourage you to become a member, as you certainly seem like a good fit. Also next years convention is in New Hampshire. So if you have an interest in meeting fellow fish people, the cost of membership cuts down on the cost of the convention. So kind of a break even, plus you will get our quarterly publication and help support our educational and conservation grants. If not that is just fine too, Often money is tight, and some people are simply not joiners. I just can't help encouraging people to give it a shot. Please forgive me.

 

Oh yeah no problem, i think it would be a fun thing to attend up in NH, ive also been considering becoming a member, its just that laws here are so strict on collecting i feel like it would be hard to participate and be apart of the community unless i travel out of state and with work and other responsibilities its hard enough to get some free time, but i am considering joining and think eventually i might but not at this point  



#7 centrarchid

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 05:14 PM

Look again at lower part of operculum.  Pure pumpkinseed will be ruled out.


Find ways for people not already interested in natives to value them.

#8 littlen

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 05:46 PM

Bluegill x Pseed bred back to another Pseed?
Nick L.

#9 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 25 July 2015 - 05:58 PM

Very well could be, but at a point it is splitting hairs and speculating. At least in my mind this fish goes in the bucket with the Pseeds not the bluegills. Also look at Lepomis regional variants. Holy cow?

 

I am not saying at all that there is nothing else in this fish's heritage but gibbosus, but for all intents and purposes it is a pumpkinseed. He can take it as a bait fish legally. It is nice to know that it may have something else in its lineage, but he returned it because he was not certain that it was a pumpkinseed, which is one of the legal fish for him to keep in his state. I think it is very fair to call this a pumpkinseed, wouldn't you all agree? I believe a game warden would also consider this a Pseed.


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#10 centrarchid

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 09:39 AM

If you were to sell me that animal as a pure pumpkinseed for use a broodstock you would be giving me my money back or you would get more than hairs split.  Correct ID is not just about limitations of law enforcement tasked with knowing a large number of species.  This particularly important on a forum where natural resources and taxonomy associated with such are so highly regarded.


Find ways for people not already interested in natives to value them.

#11 butch

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 11:08 AM

I don't see anything that screams hybrid. All I see is just a pure pumpkinseed.

#12 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 11:08 AM

Oh I agree, and see where you see the blue gill on the operculum. But I think Gamekeeper put the fish back because he was unsure if it was indeed a pumpkinseed. His state laws allowed for very few species to be kept and Pseed was one of them. It is great that he was cautious and wanted to get an ID. At this point if he catches another like this, I think it would certainly qualify as a legal fish. Is it a pumpkinseed? Maybe not because it has a percentage of another fish in its background. Would the state consider it a pumpkinseed, I would bet money on it.


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#13 littlen

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 05:36 PM

I can agree to your sentiments, Matt. I too would have said "pure Pseed" had I caught that in my local lake and not had others chime in with its possible, muddled heritage.

Anyone know the rules concerning hybrids---such that if one parental specie was illegal to keep and the other was legal--could you keep said hybrid? Just a hypothetical question.
Nick L.

#14 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 06:02 PM

I do not know if there are really established laws on this. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck. I think that is what it is when it comes to gamefish biologists and even more with game wardens. They do not expect the fisherman to have the ID expertise that Centrarchid and some others do with Lepomis. Yeah generally for our purposes here we rely on the experts to get it down to species and hybrids of those species. This is a bit different. How can they fault him for taking what looks like a pure pumpkinseed to most of the fishy people let alone the average angler. Can they fault him for keeping a Pseed that has what 25% of another species in its background? I think not. Now if it were illegal to keep greengill, and the fish looked like an obvious greengill, then it may be a different story. But if it had not been for a Lepomis specialist, none of us would have been any the wiser, nor am I not sure that it is just not a variant. I know this is not a reliable source, but look at Pseeds on google images. Wow there is a lot of variation, and of course many are longears, but this is what the average person has to work with. They are not going to prosecute you for retaining this "pumpkinseed" for bait. Where can you draw the line, With cattle 7/8th is considered purebred, though not fullblood for registration purposes. Where is the line on fish?


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