12 replies to this topic

[DPFW]

I was sampling in a stream in MA yesterday and caught a whole bunch of these minnows/shiners.  I attached three pictures of three different individuals (1248 is of the largest individual that I caught, the other two are more representative of the size I caught; for a size reference, the fish is on a 1 mm x 1 mm grid background).  I'm hoping someone can help me ID them because I'm not very good with my Cyprinids. 

 

I think all three are of the same species, but I'm not 100% certain of that.  At first when I looked at them I thought it might either be a Common shiner or a Bluntnose minnow.  But the body looks too compressed (not deep enough) to be a Common shiner but the mouth angle doesn't look right for Bluntnose.  So then I thought it might be a Spottail shiner, but I didn't see a very obvious spot on the tail (I have never seen them in the wild before, so maybe that spot isn't as obvious as the pictures on the internet make it seem?)

 

If it helps, according my state's Division of Fisheries and Wildlife, we have the following Cyprinids around here:  Common shiner, Golden shiner, Bridle shiner, Spottail shiner, Bluntnose minnow, Fathead minnow, Creek chub, and Fallfish.

 

I would appreciate any help anyone can give.  Thanks! 

Attached Files

•  IMG_1248.jpg   165.64KB   0 downloads
•  IMG_1286.jpg   152.2KB   0 downloads
•  IMG_1314.jpg   154.98KB   0 downloads

[DPFW]

oops, sorry, I just realized the images uploaded without the image numbers attached.  The top image is the larger one that I referred to.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I feel confident ruling out bluntnose minnow on all three, as well as bridle shiner, Fathead minnow, Creek chub, and Fallfish. So dump those and see what you come up with.

[gerald]

Add golden shiner and spottail shiner to the "NOT" list.  Matt -- what makes you rule out fallfish?  To me they looks most like a fallfish.

 

" ... according my state's Division of Fisheries and Wildlife, we have the following Cyprinids around here: 

Common shiner, Golden shiner, Bridle shiner, Spottail shiner, Bluntnose minnow, Fathead minnow, Creek chub, and Fallfish."

[Matt DeLaVega]

I just missed that when I copied and pasted. I was only trying to rule out the ones I am familiar with, and fallfish is certainly not one. I took his list and thought I removed what I knew. I have never seen one at all. Thank you for correcting me. But now Gerald you may have taken the challenge away.

[DPFW]

So am I understanding that people are calling it a Common shiner?  If so, could you explain why?  Is it only from process of elimination or is there something you're keying in on?

 

P.S.  Can someone explain why it isn't a Spottail shiner or a Bluntnose minnow?  Just trying to learn what to look for in case I come across those in the future...

[Matt DeLaVega]

No apparently Gerald is feeling fallfish. I am not familiar with the species, and also am not one to question Gerald much on ID.

[DPFW]

Oh, you're right.  I misread that.

 

Gerald- would you mind explaining what you key in on to identify it as a fallfish?  (Just so that I can learn to recognize it)

[gerald]

Head and mouth shape doesn't look right for spottail, bridle, bluntnose, fathead, or golden shiner.

Body looks more slender than is typical for a 4 to 8 cm common shiner, but I can't totally rule that one out.

Creek chub and fallfish have similar head and body shape, but fallfish has larger scales and less color.

Scale size on these fish looks too large for creek chub, and plain slivery coloration without any obvious stripe or dorsal spot suggests fallfish.

I have only seen fallfish a few times (in VA and PA) but these look like what I remember.

[Kanus]

I'd feel comfortable calling those fallfish

[Kanus]

You even captured the sky-blue iridescence I often look for with young fallfish. I can usually tell if there's a fallfish in the seine before inspecting the fish themselves when I see blue flashes.

[DPFW]

OK, thanks to the both of you for the extra details.  Gerald, that helps me to see the differences between the various species.  And, Kanus, thanks for mentioning that blue iridescence- I see what you mean on the pictures and I'll definitely look for that when I'm in the field from now on!

[FirstChAoS]

The white eye in the second picture is a common fallfish trait. 

 

You even captured the sky-blue iridescence I often look for with young fallfish. I can usually tell if there's a fallfish in the seine before inspecting the fish themselves when I see blue flashes.

 I seen blue irridescence on common shiners too, does it differ from the shade of blue on fallfish?