11 replies to this topic

[Isaac Szabo]

This darter, presumably a Percina species, was found in Swan Creek, White River drainage, MO. Casper, myself, and Dr. Roston weren't sure what it was when we were in the water with it, but when I got back to my books I became pretty confident that it was a longnose darter. However, after hearing from Bob Hrabik and some of his colleagues, nobody is quite sure what it is. It seems that the snout is not as long as is typical for longnose darter. ID attempts from various professionals range from longnose darter (with a short snout) to slenderhead darter, as well as various hybrid combinations including those two species, logperch, and even Etheostoma species. At this point I realize a definitive ID is unlikely without a specimen in hand, but I still would like to hear what some of our NANFA experts think.

[Casper]

When using photoshop can a fin clipping be attained?

Great pictures... my photos would add nothing.

That was a fun site.

I remember Dr. Roston suggesting a hybrid Log Perch something.

 

We will sure make it a project on my next visit.

Go fetch Roston and put him back in the water.

[BenCantrell]

I see a slenderhead darter, but I admit I don't know anything about longnose darters.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I have slenderheads locally. This is not my local slenderhead. Worried about snout length, I do not feel that this is as long as my Ohio drainage slenderheads. Longnose?

[Isaac Szabo]

Thanks guys. I should also note that longnose darter occurs in the White River drainage, though it hasn't been found in the Missouri part of the drainage since the creation of Bull Shoals Lake around 60 years ago (the sites were covered by the lake). Slenderhead darter has never been found in the White River drainage.

[Isaac Szabo]

I have slenderheads locally. This is not my local slenderhead. Worried about snout length, I do not feel that this is as long as my Ohio drainage slenderheads. Longnose?

Yes, the snout length seems to be one of the biggest issues. Longnose is supposed to have an even longer snout than slenderhead.

[Matt DeLaVega]

The snout length on this fish seems shorter than my local slenderheads. Or at least comparable.I am puzzled. I am not good at ID's but it just does not look like my slenderheads. Longnose are very foreign to me.

[Evan P]

I think it could be a Slenderhead with a smaller snout. Here is picture Uland Thomas took of a Slenderhead with an abnormally short snout: http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=2

[Matt DeLaVega]

Funny you brought that up Evan. Once when Uland was here he commented on how long nosed our slenderheads are.

 

He said "what? this is not my phoxocephala." And the photo is from his favorite local river.

[Evan P]

Huh, very interesting. Regional differences or edge-of-range hybridization could both explain seeing very odd fish like this with some regularity. Maybe look at what species of darter, if any, are uncommon in the area or reach the edge of their distribution.

[smbass]

I see some logperch like features in that fish. If I had to make a guess based off what you have told us I would say Longnose X Logperch. I think it is probably a hybrid of some sort.

[Isaac Szabo]

Thanks for your help guys.

Matt and Evan, from my research, I think the snout length is about right for slenderhead. I think that's why some of the professionals leaned toward slenderhead. However, I have a hard time buying that. Mostly because slenderhead is not supposed to be in that drainage, while longnose is. Also, to me the markings along the side look more like the bars of longnose than the blotches of slenderhead.

Brian, I was hoping you would weigh in. Like I said, Bob Hrabik reached out to a group of professional ichthyologists, many of whom are big names in the native fish field, and while there certainly was no consensus, longnose x logperch hybrid was the most popular opinion.