6 replies to this topic

[junebug]

Hi all!  Long time since I've posted... LOL life happened and my native tank plans got put on hold, modified, and were let to muddle and confuse in my brain.

I've decided it's time for a reality check.

I have available for my native tank, a 40 gallon breeder (36" long rather than 40" or whatever the standard 40 is) with a 20 gallon sump, drilled overflow.  
 

The other tank I had originally planned to use for small natives - bluenose shiners, pygmy killies, h. formosa, etc has since been slated for other projects when I unwittingly acquired some more tropical fish from a friend.  So.... now I'm at odds with myself.  I really wanted to use the 40 gallon for sunfish, and a 20 gallon for the bluenose shiners (the other fish are small so can be put in other tanks).  But that 20 gallon isn't available anymore and I don't know that I'll have space to set up tank #17...

 

So I've been spending a few days thinking about what I really want.  The sunfish I really want, more than all other sunfish, are Longears.  I'm fine with a smaller species - it's the color I want.  Talking with Brian Zimmerman last year, this seemed more than possible, but the original plan was to include Dollar suns and one of the smaller species, maybe banded sunfish or something similarly sized.

 

What worries me most about sunfish in this tank is floor space.  There's not a lot of it.  If I were to nix the Dollars and get say a M/F pair of Lepomis, and a 1M/2F group of whatever small species is available at the time.... would my fish have a strong desire to murder each other in the smaller space?  It'll be well planted with broken lines of sight, but still... I worry.

If you guys tell me I don't have enough floor space for this, the alternative gets me Bluenose shiners (which I desperately want) and a 40 gallon breeding tank set up around them, with other small species mixed in, and the sump for fry rearing.  I'm happy with either option, I just want to know what will work best in my system.  And since my goal is breeding, I can't really do a sunfish centerpiece with the shiners in the same tank, so a sunfish *in* the community tank would be out.

[centrarchid]

Either go with a single male or larger groups like six or more.  The pair-wise approach is not natural to sunfish and my require a great deal of cover to protect lower ranking / female fishes when male(s) get into the breeding mood.  Until yesterday I had 72 tanks sets much like you describe for close to 4 months with almost zero mortality.  Key was larger social groups and no breeding attempted even though fish mature.  We had 16 fish per tank ranging in size from 2 to 4 inches.

[Sean Phillips]

Well whatever you choose to go with I can tell you now that's Bluenoss Shiners are NOT an easy species to breed. Only two people have done it on here and they've both said it was extremely difficult. I got a trio of them (1M:2F) back at a fish auction in the spring and had to fight a guy all the way up to $33 to win these fish just because they were so uncommon. I was hoping to spawn them and get fry to form a larger breeding school but have had no such luck in the 4 months I've had the fish. If you still want to try breeding them id contact one or both of the people who have spawned them.

[AMcCaleb]

What about orangespotted sunfish? They have some good color and they're smaller and more peaceful. I've kept longears in a 75 before and I wouldn't recommend keeping more than one of them in anything smaller than a 55 just because there will be aggression issues eventually and you'll need the floor space to give the timid ones someplace to hide.

[Evan P]

I think a group of 6 or so Northern Longears would be a great fit in the tank. They are a smaller fish, very beautiful, and less aggressive than Dollars.

[Betta132]

I have 6 longears in a 65g, and it's just enough room for them. Longears are really pretty, but they're still fairly mean. 

[junebug]

Either go with a single male or larger groups like six or more.  The pair-wise approach is not natural to sunfish and my require a great deal of cover to protect lower ranking / female fishes when male(s) get into the breeding mood.  Until yesterday I had 72 tanks sets much like you describe for close to 4 months with almost zero mortality.  Key was larger social groups and no breeding attempted even though fish mature.  We had 16 fish per tank ranging in size from 2 to 4 inches.

 Yes, there would be 5 sunfish in the tank, mixed species.  I find odd numbers tend to result in lower aggression, as no one fish will get picked on more than the others.  What I need to know is if the footprint of a 40 breeder is sufficient room for a group of this size with two longears and three of another species.  I'm a firm believer that behaviorally, sunfish are much like cichlids in that having enough space for them,  in groups, is key to keeping aggression where it belongs.

 

Sean, I've spoken at length with Brian Zimmerman who breeds his own shiners as far as I know.  I know they're difficult to spawn.  But I'm also working with other fish that are difficult to spawn, so I'm up for the challenge lol.  Empire Gudgeons are at the top of my list actually.