20 replies to this topic

[Qwe]

I caught this fish in a small man made pond in western MA.  Put it in a jar to get some pictures, then put it back.

 

The biggest one I could see was maybe 4-5" tops.  Are there any different pictures I should go back to try to take of it to help with identification?

 

Thanks!

 

[Dustin]

Looks like a golden shiner.

[ariggsy1976]

I'm getting a Lythrurus vibe. That sharply upturned mouth is giving me fits though.

[Qwe]

Thanks, but from pictures I'm seeing, golden shiners look completely different?

 

Lythrurus bellus does look pretty close.  But so does Notropis atherinoides and Notropis heterodon...

 

Are there any guides that would let me know which specific features to look at?

[Isaac Szabo]

I agree with Dustin. Golden shiner. Your fish is a juvenile, but you're probably looking at pictures of adults (which look a little different). Here's a photo of a juvenile golden shiner that looks very similar to yours.

 

The shape of the snout with a small, strongly upturned mouth is pretty distinctive for golden shiner. In the future, some of the other golden shiner features to look for include a laterally compressed body (tall and narrow), strongly decurved (downward) lateral line, and dorsal fin origin well behind pelvic fin origin.

 

If you don't have it, you should get the Peterson Field Guide to Freshwater Fishes. You can buy it for around $10-20, and it has identification information for all NA freshwater fish.

[Qwe]

Indeed, now I see the striking similarity!

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I will definitely get that book.

[Michael Wolfe]

In case no one else was looking, or following... look at the anal fin... both golden shiners and most Lythrurus shiners have a larger and pointier looking anal fin than more Notropis.

 

I am sure someone will accuse me of over-generalizing... but I'm OK with that... its a rule of thumb that sometimes gets you thinking down the right train of thought.

[Kanus]

Michael, if it makes you feel better, that anal fin is the first thing I look at for golden shiner, though usually the shape of the body gives it way before I get to that point.

[DPFW]

I collect fish from central MA and, while I often have difficulties with shiners, that doesn't look like a Golden Shiner to me.  Their body is usually much deeper than that.  And they really do tend to have a golden coloration to them.  However, that said, I can't tell how big yours is.  I have caught golden shiners at about 3" (and larger) that look exactly like the picture here:  https://www.google.c...BC3kcR8Mt1RJBM:

If yours is smaller it's possible that some of the traits I mentioned only become more pronounced as they get bigger. 

 

The MA Fisheries & Wildlife office has a full color brochure of most of the freshwater fish species in MA.  It doesn't differentiate between adults and juveniles (for that I would agree with the other poster that the Peterson's guide is the way to go), but the brochure might come in handy (and it's free!):  http://www.mass.gov/...ations-dwf.html

Edited by DPFW, 19 August 2015 - 08:23 PM.

[keepnatives]

I agree it is a golden shiner as juveniles they do look different then adults or even older juveniles.

[Michael Wolfe]

http://gallery.nanfa...golden.jpg.html

 

Feeder tank ID reference...

[Isaac Szabo]

That's a helpful ID card for this discussion, Michael. I wasn't aware of those. It might be a good idea to update the titles/names on those (the searchable text part) with the full common and scientific names. That way they would show up in searches, making them easier to find for people who don't already know about them. I had searched the NANFA gallery for "golden shiner" and "notemigonus", but this ID card didn't show up. 

[Michael Wolfe]

Yes sir, completed per your suggestion.

[Qwe]

You guys have been great!  I can't wait to get more into natives and using this forum!

[Isaac Szabo]

Yes sir, completed per your suggestion.

Cool, but I don't see any changes. It's not a big deal though. No need to spend more time on it.

[Isaac Szabo]

You guys have been great!  I can't wait to get more into natives and using this forum!

Good, and you're located pretty close to NH which is the site of next year's NANFA convention.

[Michael Wolfe]

Cool, but I don't see any changes. It's not a big deal though. No need to spend more time on it.

I made the change on the pinned post in the ID section. Isn't that what you meant?

 

For example here:

http://forum.nanfa.o...ntifications-1/

[Isaac Szabo]

Oh, OK. Cool. I was actually talking about the gallery: http://gallery.nanfa...ers/feedertank/. Names like "feedertank golden", "feedertank greensun", etc are not keywords that would show up in most searches of the gallery (I commonly search the gallery when I'm looking for photos of native fish).

[Michael Wolfe]

Oh, OK. Cool. I was actually talking about the gallery: http://gallery.nanfa...ers/feedertank/. Names like "feedertank golden", "feedertank greensun", etc are not keywords that would show up in most searches of the gallery (I commonly search the gallery when I'm looking for photos of native fish).

 

Got that too... good idea... done

[Isaac Szabo]

Thanks!