47 replies to this topic

[NatureBoy]

hello all!

These fish were collected and photographed in a small, plastic critter box by my students and I (released). We are currently kick seining for macro-invertebrates below a low head dam on Alum Creek in Westerville, Ohio). I have two sets of pictures I'd like some help with. I think I know some, but I'd sure like your assistance. I'll start with five darters. 

 

for the fun of it, here are my guesses: 

 

1. Banded Darter, Male?

2. Green Sided Darter, Male (this one was big, but I didn't measure it. guessing 4-5 inches?)

3. Banded Darter, Female?

4. Slenderhead Darter - I would be SUPER excited if this were a positive I.D.... Franklin County is the absolute tip of it's northern range here in Ohio and it would be a new 'life lister' for me....

5.  Banded Darter, Male? 

 

thanks for any help!

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Edited by NatureBoy, 23 September 2015 - 01:19 PM.

[Josh Blaylock]

1. Rainbow

2. Greenside

3. Greenside

4. Fantail

5. Rainbow

[Matt DeLaVega]

Yep. Agree 100%

 

Lots of blackspot. Probably somewhat sluggish water at least upstream, and likely lots of snails.

[Michael Wolfe]

You got local talent IDing fish for you, so you don't need my guesses... but just to help you out next time... look at the nose/mouth shape on the 2nd and 3rd fish.  See how they are the rounded nose and underside mouth... that along with the size of the one fish you mentioned would make the ID easier for you next time.

[Matt DeLaVega]

A lot of ID features that you are probably looking for in these fish are washed out. This is likely due to a white bucket "white bucket syndrome" and a light background. The fish are adapting their coloration to match the substrate. Try using a black bucket, or at least a dark container next trip, you will be amazed at how different your fish will look come photo time.

 

 And Michael is right, for Josh and I these are probably the three most common darters we see, or close to it, so they are pretty easy for us to ID even if they are washed out.

 

 Good job with the photos. Wish that half the ID requests we get had photos even half this good!

[Matt DeLaVega]

Oh, and from books and whatever resources you have, slenderhead was not a bad guess. Notice though that your fish actually has knobs on it's dorsal fin. These are assumed to be egg mimics and only a few darters in the catanotus subgenus have these.Slenderhead darters have a real orange stripe on their dorsal fins minus the knobs. There are other differences as well, but I would assume that the generally slender head and orange dorsal lead you to that ID. Compare images of the two and you will surely see the differences.

[NatureBoy]

Josh, Matt, Michael - thank you! very helpful. I thought I had at least 3 of them right.... glad I posted them to be sure. I'm a little disappointed that Darter # 4 was not a Slenderhead (I was using the Ohio Division of Wildlife 'Stream Fishes of Ohio'.... the fish I photographed has a much more slender head and body than the Fantail in the field guide). The Fantail has very clear dorsal fin knobs though, now that you point them out. Good news is, I now have a Fantail to add to my digital collection so that works!  =)

 

Michael, thanks for the tip! I had noticed the rounded nose/mouth position as part of the greenside i.d. in the second picture, although I'm not sure why I overlooked that same feature on the next picture? Seems pretty obvious now, but for whatever reason I missed it.

 

Matt, you are exactly right - very sluggish water (and a wide, deep pool at the base of a lowhead dam) found just above and below the riffles where we were collecting.  Also, I like the idea of trying a darker collecting bucket / table next time (I was photographing them on one of those portable, folding white picnic tables).  

 

I have a few more pictures (non-darters) that I will post here, from the same day/time..... if you and/or others are willing to help me I.D. that would be great!

Edited by NatureBoy, 23 September 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[NatureBoy]

couple more, if you are willing, with my guesses: 

 

1. Blackstripe Top Minnow

2. some sort of a shiner. This was much more colorful before the picture...it also had sort of a dark stripe down the flanks and a very distinct spot on the tail. those colors are almost completely washed out of this fish!

3. Another very 'washed out' fish..... I'm guessing it was a creek chub or a blunt nose minnow. sorry I didn't get a better picture.

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[Michael Wolfe]

We'll wait for the OH/KY boys to tell you for sure, but I think you are right or really close on the first and last one. 

 

These fish must have been really stressed out in the bucket, they are all really pale.

[NatureBoy]

thanks Michael. Oddly, they didn't look so much like this coming out of the bucket, in which we used fresh, clean, highly oxygenated water from the riffles we were working. They lightened up after the transfer to the critter boxes on the white table. The good news is, they all remained highly active and all darted away quickly upon release. 

[Matt DeLaVega]

You are right on the first one.

The second fish has a bottom jaw much like a scraper.

The last one even though washed out, has a bit of pigment on the anterior dorsal fin base, doesn't it?

[Michael Wolfe]

Oh this is Matt's "teaching through hints" method.

[NatureBoy]

yep, it does have a slight pigmentation at the front of the dorsal fin. I'll go with Creek Chub.

 

I'm completely in the dark on the second one, although when initially collected it did seem to have a dark, lateral line down the length of the body (from tail to snout). it's amazing to me how much the pigmentation can change! 

[Michael Wolfe]

Matts hinting at the underslung mouth and the possibility that such a mouth includes a rasping lip for scraping algae off of rocks.

[Josh Blaylock]

Matts hinting at the underslung mouth and the possibility that such a mouth includes a rasping lip for scraping algae off of rocks.

 

Perhaps they 'Roll' the rocks/stones to get the algae off...

 

yep, it does have a slight pigmentation at the front of the dorsal fin. I'll go with Creek Chub.

 

I'm completely in the dark on the second one, although when initially collected it did seem to have a dark, lateral line down the length of the body (from tail to snout). it's amazing to me how much the pigmentation can change! 

 

Not a creek chub

[Matt DeLaVega]

Or a bluntnose.

[Matt DeLaVega]

 get two and you should get 3 pretty easily.

[NatureBoy]

at this stage you guys are just toying with me, ha ha.....    

So it seems # 2 is a Central Stone Roller....  although I have to admit I would never had made that connection....looks nothing like any stone roller pic I've seen. 

 

As far as #3 is concerned, it was a sizable minnow/chub, had a dark line along it's flank, a visible black dot at the anterior base of it's dorsal fin.... then it washed out on the table. I can't find anything other than creek chub? Matt, from your final hint, I'm going to guess it must also be a stone roller? 

 

 

lets do this - can you guys move me in the direction of a good mid-west (on-line or hard copy) field guide that would help me? It seems the 'Stream Fishes of Ohio' guide (from Ohio Division of Wildlife) is letting me down here........ 

 

thanks gents

[NatureBoy]

oh, and I want to share that we went back to the creek today for a final day in our 'stream study'. This time we were specifically looking for darters, shiners, minnows, etc. I'll have some pretty good pictures to post here shortly! 

[Michael Wolfe]

A great midwest book is Fishes of Wisconsin that is online for free

 

http://digicoll.libr...NatRes.FishesWI