8 replies to this topic

[Mrfipp]

TPWD stocks rainbow trout in local lakes and ponds annually. The stocking starts next week. They have a schedule for stocking by location available on their website. It's difficult to find trout in Texas as a native, so if you've never seen a rainbow trout first hand, I recommend going fishing soon. They are a beautiful fish and they taste great, too.

[dmarkley]

I understand rainbows are not native to Texas.  The only species that MIGHT be is Rio Grande Cutthroat trout.  Now, the only trout I've ever seen in Texas were at the Bass Pro in Dallas.  If I recall correctly, they were Rainbows and Browns.  Here in Pennsylvania, you can find Rainbows, Brooks and Browns but the only original natives are Brooks.  Now I've noticed recently a term cropping up "native Browns".  These are Brown Trout that have established themselves and are naturally reproducing.  I've seen a few of these locally and they are indeed lovely fish.

 

So, here's a question:  At what point does an introduced species get considered as a native?  I suspect the answer is not simple but I'd love to see the input!

 

Dean

[Matt DeLaVega]

I would say never. How long have common carp, English sparrows, starlings and red fox been around? Still not considering those native. However many don't realize that red fox were imported. Between them and coyotes, I rarely see a gray fox. Not even road kill.

[Mrfipp]

I agree, introduced fish that successfully maintain a population are just invasive or nuisance, not ever native. There are native trout in the trans-pecos region in a very small number of streams. They are the cutt throats, as mentioned. The TPWD however does stock trout for angling purposes in winter, and as mention occassionally a select number survive a season or two.

Rainbows are still a native North American fish though, unlike many of the fish that have unfortunately found new homes in FL. Since most Texans don't ever get to see trout besides the ones at cabelas/bass pro shops I think its a great opportunity for people to see them. Growing up in CA, we fished for and saw trout regularly.

Texas as a whole is certainly not trout territory.
I do believe there are trout in south eastern Oklahoma, but im not sure if those are native or introduced.

[mattknepley]

I tend to agree with Matt on this one, but only to a limited, heavily biased amount. I loathe starlings and European Sparrows for the chaos they reek on native birds, but actively promote the well-being of honey bees (along with our native bees). I suppose the biggest difference is that I didn't see first hand the changes the honey bees may have caused, while I see Eastern Bluebirds and other native birds shoved aside by Eur. Sparrows and starlings. On the other hand, like what the bees do, but not what those aforementioned birds.

Therefore, the flora and fauna I like are "naturalized citizens" as far as I am concerned, while those I don't value are thought of most unkindly.

[Sean Phillips]

I understand rainbows are not native to Texas.  The only species that MIGHT be is Rio Grande Cutthroat trout.  Now, the only trout I've ever seen in Texas were at the Bass Pro in Dallas.  If I recall correctly, they were Rainbows and Browns.  Here in Pennsylvania, you can find Rainbows, Brooks and Browns but the only original natives are Brooks.  Now I've noticed recently a term cropping up "native Browns".  These are Brown Trout that have established themselves and are naturally reproducing.  I've seen a few of these locally and they are indeed lovely fish.
 
So, here's a question:  At what point does an introduced species get considered as a native?  I suspect the answer is not simple but I'd love to see the input!
 
Dean

Don't forget Lake Trout, they're true natives too! Them and Brookies are my favorite fish, but pretty much the entire Char genus is awesome.

I'd never consider a fish not native to a body of water as being any degree of native, however, some have greater effects on native species than others. Take the Great Lakes for example. This opinion may partially be because I'm an angler but there's facts behind it too. Round gobies came in and started eating game fish eggs, competing with native darters with food, and even eating the darters themselves. Now, at this point they're the major source of forage for native Smallmouth Bass and non native Brown Trout which are an imported game fish but it still doesn't make their existence in the lakes acceptable. Heck, they're one of the only two reasons that lake trout aren't naturally reproducing in Erie anymore, they're eating all of the lake trout eggs that they come across and lakers happen to spawn in the exact same habitat which gobies dwell in. And then on the flip side is the non native chinook salmon was planted in the Great Lakes which does compete with lake trout but at the same time puts a HUGE dent in the also invasive alewife population which the lake trout were not effective enough in doing and the alewives which compete with lake trout fry for food and are prone to large die offs from cold winters.

So now, thanks to humans, we've got this whole mess of a food web of fish including natives, primarily harmful non natives which harm the native populations, primarily helpful non natives which dent the populations of harmful non natives, and everything in between. Quite the mess we've made.

[Gavinswildlife]

Don't forget the new guy to the party: Bighead and Silver Carp soon to be seen in erie. 

[Sean Phillips]

Don't forget the new guy to the party: Bighead and Silver Carp soon to be seen in erie.

They've got to get through Lakes Michigan, Huron, and st Clair first! Let's just hope that day never comes! The last thing Erie needs is people confusing invasive Asian carp with native bigmouth buffalo.

[Betta132]

I've seen trout introduced to the San Gabriel river, but it doesn't end well for the trout. Everyone finds out, and they all go down and fish all the trout right back out. Along one little stretch of river, there'll be 30+ people with easily a hundred trout between them. I don't stick around too much to watch, mostly because it's depressing, but I doubt it takes very long for all of the introduced trout to be taken right back out.