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Video: Pistol shrimp duel at the Not Okay Coral


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#1 NotCousteau

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:52 AM

I started my first reef tank about a month ago with live rock from the Gulf of Mexico. Worried that I had a mantis shrimp that was killing some of my crabs, I pulled out some of the rock and flushed out these pistol shrimps today. (No mantis was found.)



#2 MtFallsTodd

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 07:39 AM

Cool find. I would keep them, really interesting animal. They may stay hidden most of the time though. Crabs look like marsh crabs, you might not want them in a reef.
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#3 NotCousteau

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 11:23 AM

Cool find. I would keep them, really interesting animal. They may stay hidden most of the time though. Crabs look like marsh crabs, you might not want them in a reef.


I think these are cool, too, but I'm worried that they're killing my porcelain crabs. I've had about five bad crab (the ones in the video -- "gorilla" crabs) deaths and five porcelain crab deaths. I thought I had a mantis so I took the rocks out and all I found were 8-10 pistol shrimps.

These are in quarantine for now.

#4 zooxanthellae

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:11 PM

Nice video! I kept some native alpheids once, dang things drove me crazy snapping all night long! 



#5 NotCousteau

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 02:21 PM

Nice video! I kept some native alpheids once, dang things drove me crazy snapping all night long! 


Thank you! I'm glad you're able to identify them. That's the species I guessed these belonged to.

What kind of set up, care and feeding did yours require? I don't want to dispose of these guys, but I really think they are the ones killing my good crabs, so they'll likely be banished permanently from the tank. I have no sump.

#6 loopsnj64

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 05:36 PM

The pistol shrimp that you want in a reef tank are not the wandering solitary species (those are definitely solitary pistol shrimps, solitary species can be predatory), instead look for species that pair with gobies (they are often found or sold as pairs, but i don't think there are any native pistol shrimp that do this)


"All good things must come to an end, but bad things think thats rather dull, so they stick around long after their natural end has come"

-From an art book I read


#7 NotCousteau

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 06:10 PM

The pistol shrimp that you want in a reef tank are not the wandering solitary species (those are definitely solitary pistol shrimps, solitary species can be predatory), instead look for species that pair with gobies (they are often found or sold as pairs, but i don't think there are any native pistol shrimp that do this)


Yeah, I'm learning that the hard way! These were hitchhikers on live rock, which I knew carried some disadvantages. Overall, I love my live rock, though.

I'm doing a shallow sand bed, so I don't anticipate adding any of the burrowing pistol shrimps that pair with gobies.

#8 Betta132

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 09:41 PM

Very cool!

No, those guys didn't kill your crab. A pistol shrimp's claw is mostly used to scare predators, they don't actually have much shooting power. As you can see, they can't hurt each other by shooting, and your crabs are much more durable than those guys. My 3" tiger pistol couldn't kill anything, and he had a pretty hefty claw on him. Those cute little guys will only be able to kill amphipods and tiny worms, if anything, and they won't make enough of a dent in the population to be a concern. Put 'em back, they're harmless and also pretty cool.

Your most likely crab-killer is a larger version of that little one, or maybe a mantis that hid really well. Or they could have starved- porcelains don't do well in new tanks.

As far as care, those little pistols should be very simple. Clean water, hiding places, and easily scavenged food. They aren't fussy. Treat 'em like ghost shrimp with tiny guns.



#9 NotCousteau

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 10:34 PM

Very cool!
No, those guys didn't kill your crab. A pistol shrimp's claw is mostly used to scare predators, they don't actually have much shooting power. As you can see, they can't hurt each other by shooting, and your crabs are much more durable than those guys. My 3" tiger pistol couldn't kill anything, and he had a pretty hefty claw on him. Those cute little guys will only be able to kill amphipods and tiny worms, if anything, and they won't make enough of a dent in the population to be a concern. Put 'em back, they're harmless and also pretty cool.
Your most likely crab-killer is a larger version of that little one, or maybe a mantis that hid really well. Or they could have starved- porcelains don't do well in new tanks.
As far as care, those little pistols should be very simple. Clean water, hiding places, and easily scavenged food. They aren't fussy. Treat 'em like ghost shrimp with tiny guns.


The more I read up about these, the more I think they are more predatory than people realize. One thing is that they aren't the same type as the ones that pair with gobies.

Pistol shrimps are supposed to be able to produce a bubble with their snap that is nearly as hot as the sun when it collapses. That sounds deadly to me.

What you don't see in that video is that they did kill a few other shrimps that I later found. (Unfortunately, a few pretty red ones.) Before I removed these, I also saw a dead gorilla crab shoot out of a live rock with quite a bit of force. I'm not ruling out the possibility that there's a mantis hiding very well in my rock, but I'm also suspicious of these cute little shrimps.

#10 Betta132

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 04:05 AM

How big were the other shrimps?

I've been shot by a 3" tiger pistol, and it feels about like being pinged with a rubber band. I've also seen that tiger pistol shoot at a cleaner shrimp, a tiny goby, a damselfish, and a large bristleworm. None of them were killed by the snap, not even the bristleworm, though the pistol did afterwards grab the worm and rip it apart. I suppose the little guys could pack a bit more of a punch, but I still really doubt that those tinies killed your crabs. Did they kill the small crabs in there with them? Actually, that might be a decent test. Put some of the miscellaneous pest crabs in the quarantine tank with them and see if the crabs end up dead.

I'm not sure exactly how their snap works, but I do know that the bubble lasts for just the tiniest fraction of a second. That BBC clip showing a pistol snapping at a cleaner shrimp and killing it is faked, they aren't really that dangerous. 

 

You might also want to check on a reef forum and see if someone wants them. I bet there would be someone who'd take those little guys off your hands for a refugium. 


Edited by Betta132, 24 November 2015 - 04:06 AM.


#11 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 06:27 PM

Create a bubble when they snap that is nearly as hot as the sun? Bit of a hard time buying that. Certainly cannot understand how that works. Granted I know virtually nothing about them. Sun temp bubble sounds more like Marvel comics than real life. Are you guys serious?

 

 I thought watching them was pretty cool. I think you should find a way to keep these interesting critters, but that is easy to say when I am not charged with them. Very neat find.


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#12 zooxanthellae

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 09:15 AM

Create a bubble when they snap that is nearly as hot as the sun? Bit of a hard time buying that. Certainly cannot understand how that works. Granted I know virtually nothing about them. Sun temp bubble sounds more like Marvel comics than real life. Are you guys serious?

 

 I thought watching them was pretty cool. I think you should find a way to keep these interesting critters, but that is easy to say when I am not charged with them. Very neat find.

 

This is one of those things on par with the temperature of lightning being hotter than the sun, it's for fractions of a second. Otherwise, you could forgo a heater! I tend to agree with Betta on this one, and would be pleasantly surprised if a pistol shrimp could kill one of those crabs. I've also been popped by one, and although it didn't tickle, it didn't even break my skin. I do know there is a species that borrows into coral skeletons though, he might pack a bigger punch.

 

When I kept them, they only required an established sand bed, they did the rest. I would sometimes get under the tank with a flashlight and watch them hunt worms in their tunnels. Occasionally they would pop out into the open, but usually you only heard them. Of course there are quite a few different species, and not all of them borrow into sand. Mine were a native species that I had observed in the sand, and decided to try keeping.

 

 

Abstract on temperature reached 

 

Attached is one of my shrimp, this one was missing its snapping claw on capture though.

Attached Files



#13 NotCousteau

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 09:31 AM

Thanks for all of the input everyone. But I have to say one thing: Isn't the whole point of the loud-as-##% snap/freakishly big claw/hot bubble to KILL things? Isn't that undisputed? That's what everything I read says. They're not snapping to the beat of their favorite song.

#14 Mrfipp

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 01:49 PM

Yes, it kills or stuns things. It does so with pressure, not temperature. It's a shockwave from an air bubble that overwhelms sensory receptors and kills some critters. But the scale of what they hunt should be kept in mind. They eat small crustaceans like isopods, meaty bits of small fish and little mini shrimp, likely benthic worms. Not so much larger crabs (which are armored..).
There's something fishy about this place...

#15 Mrfipp

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 04:26 PM

I failed to mention the initial response to the concern... I've never had my pistol shrimp kill porcelain crabs in the past, but I suppose its a possibility. Most common tropical pistols are fairly well behaved, but I'm not sure about the ones you have. I'd be suspecting fish first, but if the pistol shrimp are your most likely suspect, then they may be to blame for killing porcelains.
There's something fishy about this place...

#16 Betta132

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 05:05 PM

They kill very small things with their claws, things without armor. The claw can also be used for defense, but only because it tends to deter predators somewhat when their prey makes a very loud noise and slaps them in the face with water pressure. These guys visibly aren't strong enough to kill anything large- they're shooting at each other without causing any damage. You'd have to have a very large pistol somewhere in there to be losing crabs to it.

The ones that burrow are mantis shrimp, which are very dangerous to anything small. If you're losing crabs, I'd suspect either a mantis or a very large predatory worm of some sort. 



#17 NotCousteau

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 12:37 PM

FYI I put all of the pistol shrimps (the surviving 6 that weren't killed off by their shrimp friends) and 8-10 "bad" crabs (lentil to pea-size) in their own, 3-gallon tank because I'm a sucker and can't kill them off myself, and the shrimps are killing off the crabs. They chase the crabs, corner them and SNAP SNAP SNAP -- dead crab. The proof is in my eyeballs. I have witnessed these attacks. (There are no other animals in this tank.)

 

I did add rocks, macroalgae and hiding places to give everyone a fair chance, but the tank ins't very big. I don't have the space and resources for a larger tank dedicated to "nuisance" hitchhikers, unfortunately. I think the shrimps and crabs are pretty interesting, and would if I could, but I just can't add another tank over 10 gallons at this time.



#18 Betta132

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 09:37 PM

That's really impressive. I stand quite corrected, then, this particular type is dangerous. I doubt they could knock out a particularly large crab, but I suppose I could be wrong again. 

Still, if you don't mind keeping them, they're pretty cool. 






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