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Unfortunately Cichlids Not Given Their Own Category


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#1 centrarchid

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 10:10 PM

Some these guys ranging down as far south as southern central America are North American.

 

Now to the important stuff.  I recently got back into cichlids after nearly a decade of abstinence.  Current interest is on some Chuco micropthalmus of Costa Rica acquired from an cichlid supplier in St. Louis, MO (Malawi Aquatics).  I acquired to juveniles 1" and 1.5" long.  Over last few days I noticed pits in the sand that were shallow and round.  The cichlids were seen in the pits but I did not observe their construction efforts until today.  They dig pits in much the same way a Convict Cichlid or Longear Sunfish moves substrate using their pectoral fins.  The latter two species do it to exposed prey items under detritus or otherwise loose substrate.  I am not so certain the C. micropthalmus are doing it for the same reason.  The C. micropthalmus are making deeper pits and spending a lot of time in them.  Color pattern they exhibit changes while in the pits.  They also may be roosting in the pits at night.


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#2 centrarchid

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 11:18 PM

Ich outbreak in tank.  Prognosis for tetras not good although cichlids I think with pull through.  This may be stimulus for digging behavior.  Digging is done by two methods.  First does involve pectoral fanning as described above.  Second method by picking up items in mouth and holding with premaxila.  A third method may be used to move particulates further away from pits.  Once pit is loaded with larger rocks,  Other is almost divoid of larger rocks.  Fish are doing it although who it is doing what not clear.  Either one fish is adding and other removing or larger fish is putting rocks in pit of smaller fish.


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#3 gerald

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 04:45 PM

Since there's already hundreds of webpages and forums dedicated to cichlids, including N. American species, I think the moderators felt we didn't really need a cichlid section in the NANFA forum.  But feel free to post about them in whatever sections makes sense.

 

Chris Scharpf's lower boundary for what he considers North America for ichthyological purposes is the skinny part of Mexico at the southeast end of Veracruz and Oaxaca, where the Gulf of Mex is due north and Gulf of Tehuantepec is due south.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#4 Irate Mormon

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 11:40 PM

Really, there isn't a lot of Cichlid talk here.  I suppose if there were more, then the forum gods would reconsider.  As matters stand, it's kind of like putting an "eelgrass" subforum in the plant section. 


-Martin
 
Neither Mormon, nor particularly Irate. 
 
Turning money into noise!


#5 centrarchid

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 01:32 PM

I suggest we use plate tectonics as the criteria for NA boundaries.  I have not seen any of the cichlid forums get down and dirty with behavioral observations as they suffer from too much "fluff" talk that does not get into the more interesting particulars.


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#6 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 06:56 PM

I think in many written works, including our own Chrisa Scharpf's index of North American Fishes... the actual boundaries that are used are not political, nor plate techtonics, but the Nearctic ecozone... one of the eight terrestrial ecozones constituting the Earth's land surface. Mostly it is all of North American from the top down to the middle of Mexico... but not Central America... and really only some of the islands in the Carribean... which if I remember right is based on ancient zoogeography.


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#7 gerald

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 07:06 PM

http://nanfa.org/checklist.shtml -- Scharpf's Dec 2015 version:

 

"North America is herein defined not as the entire continent, but as the Nearctic zoogeographic realm. The Nearctic Realm includes the entire continental landmass, including Greenland, Alaska, Canada, the lower 48 states, and Mexico south to the where the Mexican plateau breaks down into the lowlands of Central America. Specifically, this includes land north of 18N on the Atlantic slope, and 16N on the Pacific slope of Mexico; the imaginary line drawn between these two latitudinal points corresponds roughly to the southern range limit of chiefly northern fishes such as minnows and suckers, and the northern range limit of the chiefly southern catfish family Heptapteridae. This is not a discrete boundary, but a broad transition zone where the continental plates of North and South America began pushing against each around three million years ago (or later). Areas below this line, including extreme southern (tropical) Mexico, are in the Neotropical Realm. So, too, are the Greater Antilles. Even though Cuba is just 150 km off the coast of Florida, and Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the United States, they're both giant peaks of a vast underwater mountain range that's part of South America. Fishes from Hawaii are also excluded in that they hail from the Oceania Realm."

 

The east/west break is about 94 deg W (Longitude)


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#8 centrarchid

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 11:14 PM

My fish of interest are on what is called the Caribbean Plate.  Gray area to me.

 

 

http://geology.com/volcanoes/arenal/


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#9 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 07:56 PM

Really, there isn't a lot of Cichlid talk here.  I suppose if there were more, then the forum gods would reconsider.  As matters stand, it's kind of like putting an "eelgrass" subforum in the plant section. 

Yeah, time to chuck that old attitude. Your forum Gods are mostly Michael and myself. Pretty easy going nowadays. We and the other Mods work as a team. Granted we do not encourage a free for all, but I think we are doing a great job giving people a bit of leeway, and a voice. Very rarely giving them a hard time. At times I wonder if we are doing things the best way. We will see how it goes. Remember, we and the mods are doing what we can. It is not always easy, and really if it were not for NANFA,  I bet not a one of us would do this for the whopping pay we receive.

 

 Other than Texas Cichlids, I do not feel like they belong as a topic. I don't see a problem adding them, any type, if they happen to be in a tank full of native fish. See what others say.


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#10 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:46 PM

Since you mentioned me by name I will add... 

 

I don't care that much if you want to discuss them occasionally.  There are lots of fish groups that do not have their own sub-forum. Sometimes based on simply the fact that people don't discuss them much.  I have done a little re-organizing from time to time and if there are a bunch of threads on a topic, I can make a sub-forum.


Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#11 centrarchid

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:45 PM

I have been plying this cite a few days and feel empowered enough to suggest a little more inclusion.  One of these days they are going to be moving up here and we need to be prepared.


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#12 gerald

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 02:10 PM

Scharf's checklist includes about 25 North American NATIVE cichlids (Texas cichlid is the only one native in the USA) and about 20 EXOTIC cichlids, based on his criteria for the North Amer / Central Amer boundary.   Maybe a "Mexican Fishes" subforum would make more sense for NANFA than a "Cichlids" subforum, since NANFA's purpose is more about fish communities in natural habitats than it is about aquarium keeping.

 

... and it might net us more Mexican members


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#13 gzeiger

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 06:38 PM

I'd be on board with that.

 

I don't think anybody here will object to anything Centrarchid posts, but the question is really what is the most useful way to organize threads. If I understand correctly the implication in the original post - that there is an impending deluge of cichlid threads - then it probably makes sense to have a cichlid section. At the current post rate, Fishes of Mexico probably makes more sense.



#14 Irate Mormon

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 12:45 AM

I like the idea of a Mexican fishes subforum.  I am mostly ignorant of them.


-Martin
 
Neither Mormon, nor particularly Irate. 
 
Turning money into noise!


#15 smbass

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 12:30 PM

If we are to add something I too feel this is a better route than a Chichlids one. There is a nice article in the most recent AC dealing with one particular group of mexican fishes... Although they would also fin in with the Livebearers so maybe this is not really needed. Guess I could go either way.


Brian J. Zimmerman

Gambier, Ohio - Kokosing River Drainage


#16 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 01:13 PM

If Michael cares to add a Mexican fishes sub forum I fully support it.


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