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Help with this sunfish.


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#1 Guest_wolfie8000_*

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:36 PM

Caught this fish the other day. I thought it was a green but Iam not quite sure. Probably a hybrid of some sort.

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#2 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:12 AM

Did you catch this out of a farm pond? That's a bluegill x green hybrid.

#3 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:17 AM

Where was it collected?

#4 Guest_wolfie8000_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 04:49 AM

My wife caught it out of Lake Logan here in town. She was using a meal worm. There seems to be alot of Greens in this lake.
http://www.ohiodnr.c...ganmap_1103.pdf

Wolfie

#5 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 07:04 AM

That looks like a good location to see some sunfish hybridization. Nice looking fish.

#6 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 08:17 AM

I suspect if it is indeed a bluegill X green sunfish, a state or private stocking effort would have introduced this fish for sport reasons.

I'm not a big believer in sunfish hybridization.

#7 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 09:42 AM

Did you catch this out of a farm pond?  That's a bluegill x green hybrid.


Are you sure it's bluegill? I agree it's a hybrid but I'm not really seeing bluegill in it.

I did a bit of searching and found this bluegill/green hybrid photo.

http://gwsphotos.com/images/70.jpg

#8 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 01:01 PM

My first thought was L. auritus, but I have never seen one before so I don't have a good feel for them. The color on the fin margins def makes it look like a green sunfish hybrid. In a stocked lake bluegill/green sunfish hybrids are commonly stocked because they grow fast and produce somewhere around 90% male offspring, or so I hear. This may lead to low reproduction rates and prevent over populations.

#9 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 07:46 PM

This is not a redbreast. They look a fair amount different. I also don't think there is any redbreast in it. The short opercular flap with no margin, the forehead profile and the fair vertical barring are dead on bluegill.

#10 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 08:15 PM

This is not a redbreast.  They look a fair amount different.  I also don't think there is any redbreast in it.  The short opercular flap with no margin, the forehead profile and the fair vertical barring are dead on bluegill.

BluegillxGreen is the most popular hybrid for pond stocking. My local fish hatchery breeds them. I see them, I have stocked them, I catch them. This IS one of them.

#11 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 09:31 PM

It looks to me like there is in fact a margin on the gill flap and I'm not seeing any vertical barring. I'm not saying it dosen't have bluegill in it, it probably does (the hybrids are pretty common) but I'm just not really seeing it. The forehead area does seem the most convinceing and if any of the pictures show the bluegill in it it's the last photo.

#12 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 11:13 PM

This is not a redbreast. They look a fair amount different. I also don't think there is any redbreast in it. The short opercular flap with no margin, the forehead profile and the fair vertical barring are dead on bluegill.


hehe Thats what I get for looking a fish pics after inhaling chloroform and pvc glue fumes for a couple hours.

#13 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 11:18 PM

BluegillxGreen is the most popular hybrid for pond stocking. My local fish hatchery breeds them. I see them, I have stocked them, I catch them. This IS one of them.


Have you seen better lepomis populations, as far as overpopulations and such, in the ponds that stock the hybrids?

#14 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 01:06 PM

Sandtiger,

I see a bluegill X green.
I don't see any redbreast in it.

#15 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 03:20 PM

Sandtiger,

I see a bluegill X green.
I don't see any redbreast in it.


I never said anything about redbreast.

#16 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 03:34 PM

Sandtiger,

I see a bluegill X green.
I don't see any redbreast in it.


I never said anything about redbreast.


The redbreast was all me and the chloroform.

#17 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 03:20 PM

It looks to me like there is in fact a margin on the gill flap and I'm not seeing any vertical barring. I'm not saying it dosen't have bluegill in it, it probably does (the hybrids are pretty common) but I'm just not really seeing it. The forehead area does seem the most convinceing and if any of the pictures show the bluegill in it it's the last photo.


Okay, I'll admit the barring was a little imaginative, but I still stick by the rather short ear flap not haing a margin. If you look at the first picture, the is a distinct diffeence between the longear in the back ground vs. the questionable fish in the foreground. I do think the profile is likely the most convincing piece of evidence.

The Sandtiger showed appears to have a lot more green it is than anything else. I wonder how much variation there is among fish farms. We don't get these down here so I have never actually seen one in person.

#18 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 04:59 PM

It looks to me like there is in fact a margin on the gill flap and I'm not seeing any vertical barring. I'm not saying it dosen't have bluegill in it, it probably does (the hybrids are pretty common) but I'm just not really seeing it. The forehead area does seem the most convinceing and if any of the pictures show the bluegill in it it's the last photo.


Okay, I'll admit the barring was a little imaginative, but I still stick by the rather short ear flap not haing a margin. If you look at the first picture, the is a distinct diffeence between the longear in the back ground vs. the questionable fish in the foreground. I do think the profile is likely the most convincing piece of evidence.

The Sandtiger showed appears to have a lot more green it is than anything else. I wonder how much variation there is among fish farms. We don't get these down here so I have never actually seen one in person.


Individual traits in hybrids can depend on generation. It is known that Green X bluegill hybrids if they cross back to either a "pure" Bluegill or "Pure" Green will show a greater percentage of parental stock characteristics. Hence you will have some that look more Green and some that are more Bluegill in specific traits after the f2 generation.

The above fish in question looks like a typical Green X Bluegill and pretty much matches all those that I have seen from the typical farmed F1 generation crosses.

BTW: There has a also been known Hybrids of Green X Bluegill crossing with Redear and pumpkinseeds. These fish are really funky looking.......

#19 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 05:37 PM

Also F1 hybrids can vary depending on the sex of the parents. A male green x bluegill female could produce offspring that look quite different than a male bluegill x green female.

#20 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 06:29 PM

All very interesting. Thanks guys.




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