11 replies to this topic

[MichaelAngelo]

This shiner was caught in South Branch Tunkhannock Creek in PA.  I'm failing at finding any sampling data for this location that includes shiners.  The snout doesn't seem pointed enough to by rosyface.

 

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[nongamer]

These can be tough in certain areas.  I agree snout looks short (eye diameter longer than snout), N. rubellus is usually equal to or less than.  A pic of the gular region would help, N. amoenus will have a "widows peak" of pigmentation (I normally like to have multiple specimens to confirm... as there can be a good bit of variability.  There has been some discussion about distributions of N. athernoides in the Northern part of the Susquehanna drainage as well.  

[gerald]

That fish has more dark pigment along scale edges and LL pores than I usually see in amoenus, and dorsal fin is pretty far back behind the pelvics, so I'd guess N. rubellus, but that's just my overall impression - i can't point to any good diagnostic feature.  He's obviously been handled a lot, so that may have done funny things to his melanocytes.   In NC those two spp are not sympatric so I've never had to distinguish them in a mixed sample.  Any chance N. photogenis might be in that area ?  ... yet another one to confuse. 

[MichaelAngelo]

Thanks for your help guys, here are some more pictures.

 

Gerald, I think silver shiner can be ruled out by the pelvic fin position relative to the dorsal fin?

 

 

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[fundulus]

Silver shiners have a very distinct black crescent around the nostrils, and are more lightly pigmented than the fish in your pictures. So yeah, I'd exclude them.

[Josh Blaylock]

I agree the snout is a little short, but I still like it for N. rubellus. 

[gerald]

Is there some red/pink pigment on the lips?  N. amoenus i've seen in NC have NO red/pink anywhere. 

[Josh Blaylock]

http://fishmap.org/w...ml?huc=02050106

 

Here's the possibilities unless there are other species not listed.

 

N. rubellus - Rosyface Shiner

N. hudsonius - Spottail Shiner

N. procne - Swallowtail Shiner

[smbass]

Those are rubellus, not even close to swallowtail (procne) or spottail (hudsonius) if those are the other options for the basin.

[Josh Blaylock]

Those are rubellus, not even close to swallowtail (procne) or spottail (hudsonius) if those are the other options for the basin.

 

I agree.  Of those 3, swallowtail or spottail are not options.

[MichaelAngelo]

Thanks for the help guys!  I've never seen that site before but I'll bookmark it.

[gerald]

Thanks for the help guys!  I've never seen that site before but I'll bookmark it.

You don't even need to bookmark it -- Fishmap.org has its own tab at the top of this forum.  If you find anything missing (like N. amoenus in your basin) let Ryan know - he's RC6750 on the NANFA forum, and there's a comment submittal tab on fishmap.