17 replies to this topic

[rc6750]

Hillsborough River, Hillsborough County, Florida.

 

Hillsborough Watershed - 03100205

 

http://fishmap.org/w...ml?huc=03100205

 

I have tentatively identified the two fish below as a Brook Silverside and an Ironcolor Shiner. Just wanted to get some opinions. Thanks

 

 

[Josh Blaylock]

2nd fish looks similar to the Coastal Shiners I caught near Destin last year.

[Isaac Szabo]

I believe your silverside used to be Brook Silverside but has recently been split into a separate species called Golden Silverside (Labidesthes vanhyningi). Check out this paper: http://www.biotaxa.o....4032.5.4/16420. As your photo shows, it can have very nice color for a silverside.

[Isaac Szabo]

And I think your shiner is an ironcolor.

[Dustin]

I think the shiner is a dusky.  It looks too large to be an ironcolor and the extensions leading to the posterior end of the caudal from the caudal spot are not present in ironcolors but are in dusky.

[rc6750]

Thanks Isaac - that is interesting information!

 

Thanks for the input Dustin - I don't have any information showing dusky shiners this far south. I see a bunch of have been collected up near Gainsville. http://fishmap.org/s...sky-Shiner.html. Do you think they are migrating south?

 

*Edit* I see what you are talking about with the extensions.

 

I found this as well:

 

[Dustin]

The comparison slide is mine from fishes caught in SC.  Maybe this doesn't translate to central FL??  It does appear that you are in the land of coastal and ironcolors, and this is certainly not a coastal.  Max size for ironcolors is right at 2 inches. SL and this looks larger than this.  If this were here, I would definitely say dusky.  I wouldn't be surprised if there were duskys there since there appear to be several odd gaps in their reported range.

[rc6750]

That "tank" is a little ant farm. I am unsure if that fish is 2 inches, but I have attached some other pictures for scale (Also - I had assumed this was the same species, but now I am not sure.)

 

 

[Isaac Szabo]

Besides range, I think that dusky can be ruled out since the dorsal fin origin is in line with the pelvic fin origin (it is further back in dusky). But good catch on the caudal streak Dustin. I'm not sure what to make of that. 

[Dustin]

Pretty sure these are coastal shiners.

[Isaac Szabo]

I think you're probably right (and Josh too). The Peterson Field Guide says that coastals can have the caudal streak.

[gerald]

What makes you sure it's not a coastal shiner?  The photos in posts #1 and #8 all look consistent with coastal shiner to me.  I've seen them looking pale like swallowtail shiners, with a thin stripe and clear fins (in clear flowing creeks with sand bottom) and also seen them with a thick black stripe and gold-orange fins (in blackwater or dark-bottom sites, e.g. Lake Waccamaw perimeter canal).   Can you get an anal fin ray count?  Dusky usually has 10-11, ironcolor 8, coastal 7-8. (based on Carolina specimens).

 

EDIT:  oops looks like my post was a bit late to the game.

[rc6750]

thanks to all for input.

[smbass]

Yes the silverside is the vanhyningi and I didn't know it had been elevated but they are really different from what I call a brook silverside around here so I like the split, they are in all my records as a subspecies, something else to change now...

 

I think the shiners are all coastal shiners, pretty common in a lot of FL.

[Dustin]

The angle of the photo that emphasized the lateral band and the lack of the triangular caudal spot through me on the first photo, but there's no denying the subsequent ones.

[Moontanman]

Inland Silver Sides anyone? Look like it to me and in Florida? 

[Isaac Szabo]

I don't think inlands ever develop coloration like the one above (red snout, bright yellow-green body). But besides that, you can tell it's a golden because the origin of the first dorsal fin is directly above the origin of the anal fin. With inlands, the dorsal fin origin is in front of the anal fin origin. Goldens also have longer snouts than inlands.

[Mysteryman]

Tannic water will change the colors of some fish, and they can fool you. A Weed Shiner from blackwater will look like a Taillight, for example.

That said, I would still be inclined to guess Ironcolor. I might be very wrong, of course, but I've seen Ironcolors in spawning color, and that pale zone above the gold line glows orange. This fish has a very well-defined pale zone without the black scale edges showing. I also count 8 anal rays. It also has a large Dorsal fin.

 

Just look inside it's mouth. Is it black inside it's mouth?

Edited by Mysteryman, 29 April 2016 - 12:32 AM.