12 replies to this topic

[Quailkinn]

Hi!

I am hoping to get some advice in reviving and improving a Ohio native stream tank at the park nature center I am working at. It is (I believe) a 50 gallon that only has what I think is a small white sucker or longnose sucker (see attached picture) and two bluntnose minnows left in it.  The tank originally only had a gravel bottom with a few larger rocks. I have recently added a variety of larger rocks and driftwood for cover. It also has a fairly large, in-tank filter (I will have to get the specifics of brand and size next time I am in as well as pictures) that provides a decent current near the top of the tank. The filter cartridges consist of an coarse mesh, and a very fine mesh.  I am hoping to add a aerator near the front of the filter output to increase the dissolved oxygen content. It currently is having some algae issues. I have been making 1/4-1/3 water changes every week, as well as lightly rinsing the filter cartridges. I will be testing the nitrate contents next week. I hope to add some native plants in the future as well, but this depends on my superiors.

 

My questions for you wonderful people (with far more experience than I):

 

What do you think would be a good mix of species for this tank? I am hoping to get some eye-catching Ohio natives to spark visitors interest and appreciation of stream wildlife. I was considering some darters (such as greenside, banded, orangethroat, or rainbow), some daces (redbelly or blacknose), and shiners (spotfin or redfin), to add to the current bluntnose and sucker. Would these be compatible and reasonable? Do you have any other suggestions?

 

What other improvements would I need to make to the tank to make it habitable for the intended species? I am on a bit of a budget as most of my superiors have little interest in fish (I am trying to change that!) and are considering getting rid of it if I cannot improve it.

 

Are any of you based in Ohio and able to give me areas that would be best to legally collect specimens? Or other options in acquiring them?

 

Thank you all in advance! I appreciate any advice or suggestions you can give me.

Attached Files

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[Gavinswildlife]

Out of curiousity, what nature center is this? I'm based in Ohio, as are several other more experienced individuals on here.

[Quailkinn]

Quail Hollow State Park in Hartville, which recently came under the management of Stark parks.

 

**Which I just noticed you are from the Canton area, so very close by!! Small world!!

Edited by Quailkinn, 15 May 2016 - 10:20 PM.

[Gavinswildlife]

Awesome! I'm quite familiar with stark parks (I may investigate an internship this year or next). Brian Zimmerman on here is from the area, he may be able to tell you some collecting sites for redbelly dace in the area (and everything else). If you want a few greensides, i have a few extras in my pond I could drop off.

Other than that, good luck!

[Josh Blaylock]

Is it a hang on back style filter?  If so, I like to add Fluval bio-rings in the open space between the filter pad and the casing.  That would also work for in-tank style filters, but make sure you put the rings in a filter bag or tied in some pantyhose.

 

As far as fish.  Those you mentioned would be fine together.  Most Shiners, Dace, and darters work well.  Once you find a creek, add some local sand with the gravel, this will give it a more natural look.  Here's my 75 with sand & gravel.

 

As far as fish, a nice mix of Red-Belly Dace, Redside Dace, and several Cyprinella species would look great.  Throw in a few Notropis as well so it's a well rounded tank.  A mix of the Ohio darters will work well too, rainbow, o-throat, Bluebreast, greensides, etc...

 

I'm sure Brian Zimmerman and Matt DLV will come along shortly to help you out with locations.  Keep up updated on this, I hope to see it turned around.  I helped the Louisville Nature Center setup a tank, and I'm afraid it's went downhill.

[Michael Wolfe]

I think you are doing a great thing, and I hope we can encourage you and help you.  I think every nature center should have a native fish aquarium.  But it does take some dedication to keep one going.  Here is a project we worked on in Atlanta.

 

http://forum.nanfa.o...l= autrey mill

 

As far as your questions:

• I think your fish selections are fine (I would probably pick rainbows over orangethroats, and probably leave out the greensides as they often do not thrive in captivity in my experience).  I would definitely add blacknose dace (but you have to have to have a nice lid/canopy as they can be jumpers) as a hardy and great looking fish (especially males in the springtime).
• A nice big canister filter would make work easier on you, and help you keep the tank cleaner which might help convince your bosses (if they do not like fish, they are not your superiors, only your bosses).
• We have lots of members in Ohio that will hopefully chime in here.  
• You can definitely improve it with just a little work and a little volunteer effort... come on NANFA Ohio!

[gobucksjb]

I am a Columbus resident and would like to assist as much as I can with this project  

 

What park are you referring to?!!  

 

In Ohio as long as you are in possession of a fishing licence, you can legally obtain up to 100 non-game fish species per day as long as they are not a state listed species.  I believe on the fishing regulations pamphlet it lists the streams in the state that you are not permitted to seine.  Below is the regulated seine/dipnet sizes you are permitted to use:

 

Minnow Seines and Dip Nets

Square mesh must not be larger than 1/2 inch on a side. Seine and net size limits and places where they may be used are as follows:

 

FISHING DISTRICT MAXIMUM SIZE WHERE AND WHEN THEY MAY BE USED Minnow Seine: Inland 4 feet x 8 feet Streams only, 4 a.m. to 9 p.m. Minnow Seine: Lake Erie* None No limit Minnow Dip Net: Inland 4 feet, each side All public fishing waters Minnow Dip Net: Lake Erie* 6 feet, each side All public fishing waters

 

The species assemblage that Josh described would work great.  My personal suggestions for Ohio species include:

 

Cyprinids

-Steelcolor shiner and/or spotfin shiner (Cyprinella sp.)

-Scarlet shiner 

-Redside Dace 

-Southern redbelly dace 

-Western blacknose dace 

-Hornyhead or River Chub (Nocomis sp.)

 

Darters

Bluebreast darter

Rainbow darter 

Blackside Darter (percina species tend to be more active and not just benthic dwelling as Etheostoma species)

Banded darter 

 

In my tank I have a Brindled Madtom that adds some variety.  Although he only tends to come out during feeding or at night, it is still a cool fish to observe even if it is every so often.

 

Depending on where you are located in the state may inhibit you from obtaining some species, but I am more than willing to catch some and send them to you.  As mentioned Brian Zimmerman is your go-to contact for all things fish in Ohio.  He created this website http://osuc.biosci.o...ate.edu/Fishes/ where you can search species by latin name and it will generate localities for that species.  This would be a very useful tool in determining sites.

 

It seems you have an adequate set up already with various size rocks and driftwood.  The white sucker you currently have might not be able to coexist with darters and minnows.  Those other fish are more active during feeding, not usually leaving leftovers for the sucker to forage on.  Some other members may chime in here on their experience with suckers in aquariums, but my limited experience with suckers have not gone well in reference to keeping them with a stream assemblage.

 

-Jared  

[Quailkinn]

Thank you everyone so far for the advice and offers to help!! For those that offered, it would be amazing to get some fish from some of you, if you could be willing!! We don't have any seining nets that I know of and I'm not sure how I am going to go about catching the fish or even where they could all be found... heh. I would even be willing to drive down to meet you or help out on my days off! I suppose though, to start, I want to make sure I have a tank that would be habitable for them long term. I am concerned about the constant algae problems this tank has been having, and if the filtration would be sufficient. Ideally, I would like to only have one filter going for electricity costs and maintenance, but the way the tank is set up may make it difficult to maintain a canister filter as there is no way to access the cabinet beneath the tank (pictures should be below). However there is also no ammonia or nitrate neutralizing material in the current filter or that would be able to fit within it, and I was concerned the algae blooms were because of this (doing the actual chemical testing tomorrow to see if there is high ammonia or nitrates).

 

What park are you referring to?!!  

 

 I'm working at Quail Hollow State Park located in Hartville, Stark County. It just came under management of Stark parks, so they are figuring out what they want to update or keep in the Carriage House nature center within the park. 

 

 

In my tank I have a Brindled Madtom that adds some variety.  Although he only tends to come out during feeding or at night, it is still a cool fish to observe even if it is every so often.

 

Depending on where you are located in the state may inhibit you from obtaining some species, but I am more than willing to catch some and send them to you.  As mentioned Brian Zimmerman is your go-to contact for all things fish in Ohio.  He created this website http://osuc.biosci.o...ate.edu/Fishes/ where you can search species by latin name and it will generate localities for that species.  This would be a very useful tool in determining sites.

 

It seems you have an adequate set up already with various size rocks and driftwood.  The white sucker you currently have might not be able to coexist with darters and minnows.  Those other fish are more active during feeding, not usually leaving leftovers for the sucker to forage on.  Some other members may chime in here on their experience with suckers in aquariums, but my limited experience with suckers have not gone well in reference to keeping them with a stream assemblage.

 

-Jared  

I was actually considering madtoms, but I was worried it would make for too many bottom fish with the darters and the white sucker. So far the sucker has amazingly outlived darters, minnows, and chubs that it lived with, but the previous caretaker of the tank also rarely did water changes, or cleaned the filter, usually only gave them fish flakes, and they had been collected via shock sampling. I was hoping to hang on to the sucker for a bit as I have gotten a bit attached and he has been eating chopped earthworms fairly well that the minnows can not fit in their mouths, but if others think it will not work I am willing to find another home for him. And thanks for the link! I was looking for something like that! If you would be willing to catch some that would be amazing... I had no idea where to start. I could even pick them up if you don't want to send them!

 

 

I think you are doing a great thing, and I hope we can encourage you and help you.  I think every nature center should have a native fish aquarium.  But it does take some dedication to keep one going.  Here is a project we worked on in Atlanta.

 

http://forum.nanfa.o...l= autrey mill

 

As far as your questions:

• I think your fish selections are fine (I would probably pick rainbows over orangethroats, and probably leave out the greensides as they often do not thrive in captivity in my experience).  I would definitely add blacknose dace (but you have to have to have a nice lid/canopy as they can be jumpers) as a hardy and great looking fish (especially males in the springtime).
• A nice big canister filter would make work easier on you, and help you keep the tank cleaner which might help convince your bosses (if they do not like fish, they are not your superiors, only your bosses).
• We have lots of members in Ohio that will hopefully chime in here.  
• You can definitely improve it with just a little work and a little volunteer effort... come on NANFA Ohio!

 

That tank turned out to be gorgeous! Great job! I am currently siphoning the gravel when I do water changes as there had been a lot of built up material.... but that sand looks beautiful. Thank you for the input on fish! We do have a tight fitting canopy, and some distance between the water and the top of the tank, so hopefully the daces will work! As I mentioned above, I am not sure if I could get a canister filter to work because of the structure the tank is on... but I am open to ideas! (lol on the bosses comment!)

 

Is it a hang on back style filter?  If so, I like to add Fluval bio-rings in the open space between the filter pad and the casing.  That would also work for in-tank style filters, but make sure you put the rings in a filter bag or tied in some pantyhose.

...

 

As far as fish, a nice mix of Red-Belly Dace, Redside Dace, and several Cyprinella species would look great.  Throw in a few Notropis as well so it's a well rounded tank.  A mix of the Ohio darters will work well too, rainbow, o-throat, Bluebreast, greensides, etc...

 

I'm sure Brian Zimmerman and Matt DLV will come along shortly to help you out with locations.  Keep up updated on this, I hope to see it turned around.  I helped the Louisville Nature Center setup a tank, and I'm afraid it's went downhill.

The filter is a in-tank filter (this kind: https://www.amazon.c...r/dp/B000256CHS, the largest size), but I am not sure there would be room in it for the bio-rings...  I would also love to add some sand, but I am currently using a siphon to do water changes. Do you have other recommendations in relation to waterchanges/cleaning? How do you clean a sand substrate tank? Thank you for the advice on species mixes!

 

Awesome! I'm quite familiar with stark parks (I may investigate an internship this year or next).

I have only been working with them for a few months but overall it has been a very positive experience! I would definitely recommend an internship.

 IMG_2664.JPG   136.32KB   2 downloads

The tank with a recent water change, with the stand visible. There is no way to access the inside of the stand that I know of, though there are a couple of holes drilled into the top.

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What the tank tends to look like a week or so later.

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A side-ways side picture of the in-tank filter.

[Josh Blaylock]

I think there is not enough filtration on that tank. I can't imagine that internal filter had enough power to circulate the tank. Also, without bio-media for beneficial bacteria, it's kinda a waste. One large canister filter would probably do the trick. You could even opt for 2 hang on styles, or just one of the large ones in the middle with that filter inside. I wonder if Ohio rep. Matt De La Vega has any filters he'd like to donate. At one time he had some extra tank parts.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Quailkinn]

I was worried that the filtration may not be adequate, but I am not sure what to do about it... I doubt they will grant me the kind of money to purchase a different one since they don't want the tank to begin with, but I will see what I can do. The filter does create amazing flow in the tank. It can shoot water all the way across the tank length wise with power still behind it when the water is below the output nozzle.

 

I also did a water test today and the results were surprising to me... Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0-5ppm, but the pH was 8.6?

[gzeiger]

Photosynthesis of the algae will change the pH of the water throughout the day. I would discount that measurement entirely.

 

It looks to me like there is way too much light on the tank. I would say that's more likely the main culprit in the algae bloom. Fortunately it does look like it's nearly all suspended cells, which means it can be temporarily addressed very effectively by water changes. Definitely cut back the light though. If you're not trying to grow plants, you want just enough to see the fish, which is like an $8-10 little strip light fixture from an office supply store.

 

Your filter pump is probably adequate. A finer mesh material may help if some of that is actually suspended debris. Cloth can work.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I am crazy busy at the moment and could probably help you better if you gave me a call. I often do not answer long distance calls as they are usually junk, so leave a message if I don't answer and I will call you back shortly. I will send you a PM with my number. Look forward to hearing from you. Matt

[centrarchid]

As filtration is upgraded consider promoting localized horizontal flow near bottom.  Two benefits will be realized, first is gravel component of bioflltration will be improved, secondly you will get fish to have a range of stable current gradients they can distribute around preventing the random movement pattern stream fish do in a static water volume.  The high current area will also be more conducive to display prolonged bout of feeding and fish adaptions to high flow conditions.

 

I would include crayfish in mix even with risk imposed on fish.  You can setup caves near front of tank where crayfish are visible even while sequestered in cave.  Public will get a kick out of seeing molting and burrow management changes associated with it.

 

I used to do volunteer work for a small nature center where each day we staged a sunfish breeding event.  Male sunfish was kept in larger display tanks while females where house in smaller conditioning tanks.  When a ripe or nearly ripe female was added to tank the male would court her in a very obvious manner.  I trained interpreters how to give a play by play description of what was going on.  Spawns were produced multiple times where public could then see what was going on.  I used Red Spotted Sunfish most of time although Pumpkinseeds did well if temperature did not get too warm.  Even Bluegill can be used without causing undo harm to others in tank.