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What to do as Everglades are Lost?


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#1 centrarchid

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 06:35 AM

In my pursuits of Bluegill it became apparent the southern populations, despite being more diverse might be in a bind.  Sea level rise appears to be a particular threat to populations in the southern 1/3 of Florida.  Looks to me as if the Everglades in their entirety and much of the land immediately to the north (prime citrus production area) will convert to marine conditions and it will not take thousands or even hundreds of years.  How do we save those Coppernose Bluegill?


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#2 loopsnj64

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 09:03 AM

Well, if there are no ways to save them by landscape modification (which is not my area of expertise anyway)

As a backup plan, you could raise/breed a large number in captivity... I guess?


"All good things must come to an end, but bad things think thats rather dull, so they stick around long after their natural end has come"

-From an art book I read


#3 Betta132

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 06:49 PM

Well, normally I'd imagine that freshwater-only species would either adapt to brackish and then saltwater, or would move further inland. A lot of the land in Florida is occupied by humans, though, so they don't really have that option. Probably the best bet would be to maintain any vulnerable species in captivity, and just hope that not all of their habitat vanished.



#4 gerald

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 07:11 PM

Discharge all of northern FL's wastewater into the everglades to keep it "fresh" ?

Build a sea-wall and make NY pay for it?


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#5 mattknepley

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 07:23 PM

Make like Noah and ark 'em. "A Coppernose in every backyard pond..."
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#6 centrarchid

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 09:17 PM

I am not at this time (speaking like a politician) advocating transplanting Coppernose into ponds outside their natural range.  Especially if it involves effectively leapfrogging Coppernose stocks occurring naturally to the north.  Many of those will be impacted a little later as well.  Also keeping them in ponds for duration expected in my opinion is not practical and will result in changes from adaptions keeping them in good status  with current environment.


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#7 mattknepley

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 05:52 AM

Good points. I'm not actually advocating moving wild populations either. Just in finding a way to preserve the animals' unique contribution to creation. Considering how quickly increasing salinity is rearranging things in coastal areas (Nature Conservancy dealt with this topic in their recent Swallowtailed Kites article.) it's time to be thinking what we want/need to do. We have decide that Coppernoses have worth and need to be preserved. We realize that their native habitat is going bye-bye. Some compromises will need to be made to ensure their existence.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#8 centrarchid

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 08:00 AM

I was using Coppernose as an example.  Many other species are going to be so challenged there and around much of the coastal US.  They have no where to go as the freshwater coastal areas are inundated.   This type of challenge, especially when considering its scale is without precedence.  I see similar challenges inland and agriculture and possibly current conservation efforts may be blockers to survival with some species.


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#9 don212

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 09:05 PM

if what you descibe happens, salt water intrusion into aquifer will make the land unusable to humans, the last person out could maybe open up the okeechobee dam and then we could start over



#10 centrarchid

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 09:28 PM

I do not think opening the Okeechobee will help much.  It may buy some areas an additional 20 years but even it will be inundated eventually.


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#11 lilyea

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 09:20 PM

Although the Coppernose Bluegill extends well beyond the Everglades, I understand and appreciate the overarching point that saltwater intrusion can play (and is already playing) in southern and coastal Florida.  Freshwater pollution and saltwater intrusion have been significant issues in Florida for the last century as man has tried to control the land and water with limited success.  When working on a NOAA research project in the Naples area it was fascinating to see dinner plated-sized blue crabs in freshwater ponds and other similar oddities throughout the salt/fresh ecotones.  There has been and will continue (likely at a faster pace) to be extirpations throughout South Florida.  Thoughts on solutions and/or issue management include (1) those of you with amazing photo/video skills head to the Everglades, Big Cyprus, and surrounding areas to assemble a featurette-style YouTube video(s) to generate awareness and share practical action steps; (2) natural science researchers include social scientist on your research team to help inform and education the public, decision makers, and policy makers; (3) encourage Universities like FIT, FIU, FAU, NSU, UMiami, FGCU, Eckert, USF, FSU and UF to add a native fish focused research lab/center to their oceanographic/fisheries programs (UF's Tropical Aquaculture Lab is similar but is primarily focused on ornamentals); (4) sponsor/fund/develop a CFI-type organization that is focused on Florida's native fishes; and on a smaller scale (5) support efforts like the Florida's Collecting Guide led by the Suncoast Killifish Society/Florida NANFA chapter and Fishmap that are collecting and identifying the locations of native fish throughout Florida.  

 

What other ideas are there (or approaches that have been implemented in other challenged areas) that would be applicable to native fishes in south Florida?  As a Florida-based social scientist/qualitative researcher with experience in environmental conflict, a trainer/teacher, and a certified naturalist, I would be interested in participating in viable research, training, or other outreach initiatives.



#12 fundulus

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:36 AM

Thanks, lilyea, that's the most coherent view on Florida's water problems I've heard for a while. It's very ambitious, but then, it will have to be.


Bruce Stallsmith, Huntsville, Alabama, US of A

#13 centrarchid

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 01:16 PM

I very much feel this is going to be a great deal more than the saltwater intrusion issue that is making paper and targeted by some research currently.  Everything freshwater is going to have to move inland / up elevation into areas currently developed for agriculture and other uses.  The above needs to consider physical changes in habitat locations as current locations will be lost.


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#14 Doug_Dame

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 04:15 PM

It's an interesting issue/problem, no doubt. Florida is very flat for the most part. So a sea-rise of x-feet per 100 years will shrink the foot-print of the land disproportionately, compressing what's available. Brackish water communities will move into areas now occupied by fresh water communities, and the shallow marine environments will increase. (Probably good for sea grasses). As Centrarchid notes, some freshwater communities will move inland/upland. But it's noteworthy that one of Florida's most pernicious and ubiquitous colonizing exotic species has a strong, strong preference for precisely the environs that span the salt-water/freshwater boundary. I am speaking of course of the notorious, dangerous and often unpredictable Homo sapiens retirensis, which has many subtypes (*).

 

Confucius: May you live in interesting times.

 

d.d.

 

* e.g., 

Homo sapiens retirensis "nwyorkicus" ... "I already paid a lifetime of taxes back home in NY, thank you very much."

Homo sapiens retirensis "ohioensus" ... "I already paid a lifetime of taxes back home in Ohio, thank you very much."

Homo sapiens retirensis "michigandei" ... "I already paid a lifetime of taxes back home in Michigan, thank you very much."

Homo sapiens retirensis "massachusettia" ... "I already paid a lifetime of taxes back home in Boston, thank you very much."

 
 

Doug Dame

Floridian now back in Florida
 


#15 don212

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Posted 28 June 2016 - 01:58 PM

fl. was once underwater, and for quite awhile it was just a narrow ridge, also once it extended out another hundred years, probably the fish will be okay, but we may all have to live in Brooksville and drink bottled water from minnesota



#16 centrarchid

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Posted 30 August 2016 - 09:07 AM

I see a problem for N America in links below when considering agriculture.

 

https://www.scienced...60829163603.htm

 

http://maps.tnc.org/...#4/16.55/-81.91


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