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Breeding sturgeon


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#21 Evan P

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:51 AM

I think cultural normalization is a major part of it as well. Dogs have been domesticated for at least 10,000 years, but evidence also shows wolves being domesticated in Asia 32,000 years ago. Dogs most certainly have multiple geneses, which seems to say that we as humans have something in us that we inherently want to keep canids as pets. So, their mutation and manipulation already seems so different from the original animal. There are many people who have never seen a wolf or coyote in person, but have seen plenty of lap dogs. On the other hands, each of us has a fixed idea of what a Shovelnose Sturgeon is supposed to look like and morphs of that creature fight against the model we have created in our mind. Evolution has told us that things that break the mold should be paid more attention and our personalities fill in our reaction to the shattered form.


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#22 thedood

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:41 AM

This is a great topic. I think Yeahson421 makes a great point about cultural acceptance. I'm going to use his example of dogs. How many of us would own a Great Dane (I have) who have known issues with their intestines, hips, etc which can all point back to breeding. How many people would own a Great Dane yet would come unglued and will lecture at the chance 2 cichlids may hybridize. Ive never had an issue with taking the best of a SINGLE species and selective breeding them for color. For example selecting the best males and best females rainbow darters from different lineage and no inbreeding. Unfortunately in my opinion things have gotten out of hand and I will give a few specific examples if what amounts to very irresponsible behavior in the aquarium industry. I wont even bother to go into glo-fish.

 

Example 1: Neon tetras used to be a hardy fish. If you go over to planted tank forum there are tons of threads where these fish just up and die or are spreading disease. This seems to me is a direct result of inbreeding and irresponsible husbandry on the part of the aquatics industry. I have heard people say inbreeding does not matter in fish and I think that may be correct for a generation or two but eventually the bad genetics will become dominate and it seems to me to be very visible in the neon tetra supply. Maybe I am wrong about this.

 

Example 2: The blood parrot. Hybridizing species to the point the end result while pretty in color is extremely deformed to the point that simply eating is a chore and the fish are highly susceptible to disease and suffering.



#23 Moontanman

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 10:43 AM

I keep basset hounds, quite a ways from the phenotype... 


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#24 gzeiger

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 06:37 PM

I like to casually use the term "inbred" when talking about cats and dogs whose owners would describe them as "pure-bred." It's especially effective when there some obvious deformity you can point out, as in "isn't it cute how their tails never grow in when their parents are cousins?"


Edited by gzeiger, 09 August 2016 - 06:40 PM.


#25 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:11 PM

Inbreeding is simply a form of line breeding that goes to far. I have bred bulls to their daughters and granddaughters for 3 generations. If you don't have bad genetics it is no problem. If you do, it exposes the recessive genes and you can cull that out. I am a big proponent of linebreeding/inbreeding as it allows you to expose bad genes and cull them and also to fix positive genes and phenotypes. It can go to far, and it is called inbreeding depression and is exactly the opposite of hybrid vigor. I would venture to guess that this is what is happening with the tetras described by Lebowski, sorry, meant the dood.

 

 Anyway, if a human were to breed with his daughter, the chances of having a child that is messed up are slim. The only reason this has become almost urban legend is that genetic issues can run in families and be recessive. The chances then of two family members carrying a recessive gene can go up and if they breed, the likelihood of that recessive showing itself goes up. It is not really due to inbreeding. More to do with a family line having multiple people in it who carry the recessive. Take Josh Blaylock for example. Even though he comes from Harlan Kentucky, and in small communities like that, there was quite a bit of closebreeding in days past, he is not messed up. Luckily his family happened to have good genetics. Oh man am I in trouble now.


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#26 Josh Blaylock

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:52 PM

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#27 Josh Blaylock

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:56 PM



Oh man am I in trouble now.


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#28 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:01 PM

Well. since I only spoke of your area of birth, an complemented your excellent genetics, figured you could not be too angry. I also know first hand that you, unlike many from the commonwealth do not bottle feed your babies Mountain Dew.


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#29 Josh Blaylock

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:37 PM

Well. since I only spoke of your area of birth, an complemented your excellent genetics, figured you could not be too angry. I also know first hand that you, unlike many from the commonwealth do not bottle feed your babies Mountain Dew.

At least you didn't compare me to the Blue People of Troublesome Creek

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=15759819

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#30 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:22 PM

Love ya Josh.


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#31 az9

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 12:20 PM

I've considered doing some research on the non hybrid sturgeon to grow out to large size in my recirculating systems and possibly my ponds if they are profitable. I'm willing to wait a few years for a pay off. I wait 3 years to get my trout species to harvest size. 



#32 Moontanman

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 05:54 PM

I've considered doing some research on the non hybrid sturgeon to grow out to large size in my recirculating systems and possibly my ponds if they are profitable. I'm willing to wait a few years for a pay off. I wait 3 years to get my trout species to harvest size. 

 

 

Shovelnose mature faster and are much smaller, even the government suggested they be released into the aquarium trade but if you could breed these it would be like printing money!

 

 

Pseudoscaphirhynchus hermanni

 

http://www.fishbase.org/summary/8764


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