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Spottail Shiner? + Bonus extra credit ID


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#1 FishyJackson

FishyJackson
  • NANFA Member
  • Long Island

Posted 16 October 2016 - 05:58 PM

Caught in Fishkill Creek, NY

 

I guess there's a spot on the tail but would have thought there would be a pronounced round spot, this pic doesnt really show it but there was a faint horizontal band across the fish and the possible tail spot wasnt very pronounced.  I can't find what other Notropis species live in this creek.  I know Spottails are in the Hudson which Fishkill Creek drains into.  Do y'all with Notropis knowledge concur it's a Spottail?

 

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Bonus ID

 

I figured these were Golden Shiners but any chance they are Common Shiner?

 

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#2 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
  • Board of Directors
  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 16 October 2016 - 06:17 PM

N. hudsonius... in the Hudson River drainage.. imagine that. And they are very variable across their range.

 

No, there is no chance that this is a Luxilus... looks just like a Golden Shiner to me.


Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#3 FishyJackson

FishyJackson
  • NANFA Member
  • Long Island

Posted 16 October 2016 - 07:26 PM

N. hudsonius... in the Hudson River drainage.. imagine that. And they are very variable across their range.

 

No, there is no chance that this is a Luxilus... looks just like a Golden Shiner to me.

 

no chance? not even 1 in a million lloyd christmas style?  ahh was worth a shot.  Thanks for the prompt ID work 



#4 littlen

littlen
  • NANFA Member
  • Washington, D.C.

Posted 17 October 2016 - 08:32 AM

"What are the chances of a human like you and a fish like me getting together?"

 

fc2fca5cc8833d35c92822a6af386914480a4e7c


Nick L.

#5 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 17 October 2016 - 12:03 PM

Sorry Michael but I think #1 is most likely a Luxilus (common shiner), not a spottail.  #2 and #3 I agree is certainly a golden.

FJ -  Are those anchorworms on the golden shiner (tail and anal area)?


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#6 Michael Wolfe

Michael Wolfe
  • Board of Directors
  • North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 17 October 2016 - 03:37 PM

In conceivable!
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#7 FishyJackson

FishyJackson
  • NANFA Member
  • Long Island

Posted 18 October 2016 - 08:37 AM

Gerald say it ain't so...ID discrepancy??

 

Regarding the anchorworms- I think you're right, I thought the red was a mating coloring or something but I just zoomed in on the pic and it's something weird like anchorworm

 

 

Regarding this discrepancy, curious why you think it's common shiner?  The pics I'm seeing of common shiners dont really look like this.  



#8 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 18 October 2016 - 03:53 PM

That fish looks virtually identical to the juvenile Lux. albeolus (white shiner) around central NC -- I see hundreds of them in nearly every stream in the Neuse and Cape Fear basins.  It's a close cousin to the common shiner.  They get the classic deeper body shape as they mature.  Zoom in and look at the tall narrow anterior scales (a Luxilus feature).  The head and mouth shape and slight purplish sheen on your fish also look more like Luxilus than N. hudsonius.  However - in full disclosure - my familiarity with hudsonius is limited to NC + VA specimens, and northern ones do look different.  But, hudsonius should have a nearly horizontal mouth (very slight upward tilt) whereas your fish has a distinctly oblique mouth.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#9 FishyJackson

FishyJackson
  • NANFA Member
  • Long Island

Posted 18 October 2016 - 05:45 PM

thanks for that Gerald

 

damn in reality I really should avoid catching these 1 inch long juvenile minnows.  These Common Shiners get pretty big , I expected minimum 3 inches whenever I found them.  

 

Mr. Wolfe- Do you change your diagnosis after Gerald's analysis?  



#10 smbass

smbass
  • Board of Directors

Posted 18 October 2016 - 10:11 PM

I too think that is a small common shiner, doesn't look like hudsonius even though I think those east coast ones are really weird and different than my Great Lakes spottails in Ohio and I had no idea what they were when I first found them.


Brian J. Zimmerman

Gambier, Ohio - Kokosing River Drainage


#11 FishyJackson

FishyJackson
  • NANFA Member
  • Long Island

Posted 19 October 2016 - 05:44 PM

ok smbass, you shall serve as the tie-breaker in this case.  Common Shiner it is thanks



#12 Matt DeLaVega

Matt DeLaVega
  • Forum Staff
  • Ohio

Posted 19 October 2016 - 09:32 PM

BTW, I just happen to concur with Gerald and Brian's ID. Yep, I knew it all along. I was just waiting to see if anyone else would happen to get it right. So Luxilus it is I reckon.


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#13 itsme

itsme
  • NANFA Member

Posted 26 October 2016 - 10:17 AM

Don't know if it's Luxilus, but the head did look a little big right off for hudsonius.  The amazing thing is that the photo includes a line to its mouth with a tiny bit-o-worm on it.  How big is that fish?!



#14 FishyJackson

FishyJackson
  • NANFA Member
  • Long Island

Posted 27 October 2016 - 08:00 AM

Don't know if it's Luxilus, but the head did look a little big right off for hudsonius.  The amazing thing is that the photo includes a line to its mouth with a tiny bit-o-worm on it.  How big is that fish?!

 

It was max 2 inches...but it fought like a 3 inch fish



#15 itsme

itsme
  • NANFA Member

Posted 27 October 2016 - 10:19 AM

 

It was max 2 inches...but it fought like a 3 inch fish

Hilarious!



#16 itsme

itsme
  • NANFA Member

Posted 27 October 2016 - 10:21 AM

Now I'm gonna say, Pygmy Tarpon!  






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