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75 Gallon Native Stream Tank Build


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#361 Fleendar the Magnificent

Fleendar the Magnificent
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  • Ohio

Posted 15 October 2021 - 02:12 PM

Hey Kevin.

Good to hear from you! Yeah, it's been awhile since I really last enjoyed the hobby. Just trying to get back into it again after the catastrophic past 2.5 years.

Finally got the big aquarium up, but not finished. Need some green in there and perhaps another piece of wood.
That said, fire away the questions concerning insulators and bottles. It's what I do. Of you can't find any whole ones, PM me your addy and I will send you one or two. I have about 700 here.

I went with the river bottom look. The Olentangy river is rocky and there's bottles, some insulators and bricks. Of you use bottles, that will look nice, just be watchful of the neck diameter so that none of your fish swim in but can't get out. I have a cobalt blue whitall Tatum made corktop med bottle that I might use as well. Just have to check the neck! Don't want my darters getting in and getting stuck.

The insulators that are in the tank right now are a complete Whitall Tatum and a broken HGCO Petticoat. The craws love the pin holes.

Let me know on an insulator or two of you want them.

The Grumpy Old Man.

#362 Chasmodes

Chasmodes
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  • Central Maryland

Posted 16 October 2021 - 08:10 AM

Thanks Chris.  I may take you up on that some day.  I'd like to try and find a whole one first. I thought of adding a bottle to the neck, but you bring up a good point about the neck diameter.


Kevin Wilson


#363 Chasmodes

Chasmodes
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Posted 17 October 2021 - 07:36 PM

Hey everyone, question regarding this tank:  would adding a longear sunfish be a mistake?  Would they kill the darters and smaller cyprinids?

 

Thanks.


Kevin Wilson


#364 Fleendar the Magnificent

Fleendar the Magnificent
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Posted 17 October 2021 - 09:05 PM

Hey everyone, question regarding this tank:  would adding a longear sunfish be a mistake?  Would they kill the darters and smaller cyprinids?

 

Thanks.

I keep all in my tank, a Northern sunfish (originally the Northern Longear sunfish), bluntnose minnows, spotfin shiners and darters. If you're wanting to keep a sunfish, better off with a smaller mouth species. Northerns are better than bluegills, pumpkinseeds and green sunfish because they have a smaller mouth, but perhaps an orange spotted would be better yet.

If it fits, it will inevitably end up there if the sunny isn't kept sated. I try to keep 1" shiner fry in the tank when I can catch them for my sunfish. For the most part he leaves everyone alone, especially now that they're in a bigger tank, and he ignores the darters completely. From my personal experience, keeping creek chubs with darters and other cyprinids is worse than keeping a single sunfish. Chubs are voracious eaters and I lost a gorgeous bright green banded darter to a chub 2 years ago. Chubs are not community tank fish whereas the smaller mouthed sunfish are decent community denizens as long as the tank is big enough.

 

That being said, if you put *any* tiny fish in with a sunfish of any species, it will eat it. I generally keep fish that are 2" or longer. The Northern tends to bully them now and then, but not eat them, and despite that, so far, everyone seems to like their new digs and there's peace on the frontier. However, we're still in the settling in stage and the Northern hasn't chosen his territory yet and tends to hide when I approach. The darters aren't so keen on being photographed yet either. My female rainbow is kinda used to it and generally doesn't repeatedly climb the water column, but the male banded darters are still in the "What the h... just happened?" mode, climb the water column trying to figure out that invisible force field that is blocking them, and retreat behind the driftwood when I approach.

 

Anyhow, from my personal experience, think carefully about adding larger fish to your community tank. While you don't have any other sunfish species in your tank for competition, if you add one to your tank, he will inevitably seek out and create his own territory. I caught all of my fish while very small and put them into the tank at the same time, and transferred them to the bigger tank at the same time. If you get a sunfish, get him small and let him grow into the community and tank.

 

Hope this helps.

 

The Grumpy Old Man.



#365 Fleendar the Magnificent

Fleendar the Magnificent
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Posted 17 October 2021 - 09:19 PM

Thanks Chris.  I may take you up on that some day.  I'd like to try and find a whole one first. I thought of adding a bottle to the neck, but you bring up a good point about the neck diameter.

Let me know.... However, search the ditches around railroad tracks as well for discarded insulators. Keep this in mind that most of the time, the poles were placed on the leeward side of the tracks, E.G. The track runs north-south, the poles would likely be on the East side. This was done so that if high winds were to blow a pole down, it wouldn't fall over the tracks since usually the winds blow West to East. On East-West and vise versa, the poles could be on either side. Creeks and rivers beside tracks are an excellent place to look as well.

Bottles are an excellent addition, but you do want bottles that have a neck / top opening diameter of that of a 1970s pop bottle, or perhaps an 1800s era liquor bottle that had wider necks than medicine bottles. For the most part, you'll only have to worry about the benthic fish and crays if you have any since most of the fish you have stay in the middle to upper water column. However, once in awhile you'll get a dunce minnow or shiner.... :fishy:

 

The Grumpy Old Man.



#366 Chasmodes

Chasmodes
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Posted 18 October 2021 - 07:36 AM

Thank you Chris!

 

So far my river chub is a model citizen.  I still keep an eye on him though.  My goal is to keep him well fed so he's not tempted to attack the other fish, so far so good.

 

I know that my satinfins and blacknose dace have spawned multiple times.  The darters continuously look for eggs in the rock crevices and probably chase down and eat any of the fry that hatch and survive.  I'm thinking that, as my plants get thicker, I may get some to survive.  When I broke down the tank a year and a half ago to put my fish in QT, I found fry swimming around that were bigger than I had hoped, but they got siphoned out to the sink by accident before I could act.  

 

If anyone wants satinfin fry, let  me know, as I have a friend who is raising a bucket full of them.


Kevin Wilson


#367 Chasmodes

Chasmodes
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Posted 18 October 2021 - 10:23 PM

Well, I got my new phone, so, I expected a better video.  It's not much better quality, and maybe that's user error, I don't know.  Anyway, I decided to do a full tank shot type video with a slight zoom in after a few minutes, and to cut out most of the chit chat and let everyone focus on the fish and the tank.  Since the quality wasn't as I had hoped, the focus on the fish is a bit tough.  My water stargrass (incorrectly referred to as river stargrass by your's truly in the vid) is growing like leaps and bounds, and greening up nicely, as is the Valisneria jungle to the right of the tank.  I couldn't be happier about the new growth, although, I will have to harvest some, I guess, so I don't lose all of the negative space in my tank.  The fish are doing well and happy, for the most part.  They eat like pigs!  Anyway, I hope y'all like the video.

 


Kevin Wilson


#368 Fleendar the Magnificent

Fleendar the Magnificent
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Posted 19 October 2021 - 10:56 PM

Got wet tonight again seeking fry for my sunfish and madtoms to eat. River-wading season is about over for us that don't handle cold water very well. Came back with (4) banded darters, a 1" brindled madtom and about 12 shiner / bluntnose minnow fry. Dear God, there's river snails aplenty, but I have enough as well as (2) wild Japanese trapdoor snails. I need a male rainbow darter for my female, but hopefully by next late spring / early summer, l will get one. River is extremely low right now and seem to catch more along the bank when it's raging.

Anyhow.... due to the chill of an early fall, it seems that I caught the brownbottle flu tonight and feel extremely tired. Seems that wading the river worn me out for another day.... :biggrin:

 

Blessings, happy and safe legal collecting.

 

The Grumpy Old Man.



#369 Chasmodes

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Posted 20 October 2021 - 08:07 AM

You crack me up, "brownbottle flu".  I have worn waders already a couple times fishing.  Yeah, I think that your climate and ours in MD are similar. During our ice fishing "season", I kind of watch Central Ohio's weather as a preview to what we might get.  I usually ice fish in PA but sometimes during cold winters, lakes near me.

 

Looks like you've got some good specimens for your tank and food for your sunnies.  

 

I had a Japanese trap door snail that did nothing.  He's in a bucket now with plants.  I was worried that he was near dead so I pulled him out of the tank.  Are your snails active in cleaning algae in the tank?


Kevin Wilson


#370 Chasmodes

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Posted 20 October 2021 - 08:21 AM

Here's a much clearer video than the last one complete with more ramblings of yours' truly:

 


Kevin Wilson


#371 Fleendar the Magnificent

Fleendar the Magnificent
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Posted 21 October 2021 - 09:28 PM

You crack me up, "brownbottle flu".  I have worn waders already a couple times fishing.  Yeah, I think that your climate and ours in MD are similar. During our ice fishing "season", I kind of watch Central Ohio's weather as a preview to what we might get.  I usually ice fish in PA but sometimes during cold winters, lakes near me.

 

Looks like you've got some good specimens for your tank and food for your sunnies.  

 

I had a Japanese trap door snail that did nothing.  He's in a bucket now with plants.  I was worried that he was near dead so I pulled him out of the tank.  Are your snails active in cleaning algae in the tank?

 

Good evening, Kevin.

 

Yes, the brownbottle flu. I've suffered it many a years. Sometimes nightly. Many times the symptoms are alleviated by a good old fashioned retching and then you're good for round II. You wake up the next day saying, "Dear God, I'll never do this again", and then you do it again.

 

WADERS???? What are THOSE? Oh heavens no! I just put on a junk pair of clothes and shoes (late spring-mid October), brought another pair with and then fished that river until worn out. I never wore waders. I just dun got-wet! Usually came home with at least 5 smallmouth, some redeye rock bass and perhaps a few long ears. Used soft craws and Dare Devil spoons. I was a teen back then. Oh yes, those were the good old days!

 

Yeah, our winters are somewhat similar since we're on a similar longitude, however, we're more prone to lake-effect snow. Not sure if you get ocean-effect snow or not. Regardless, it gets nice and cold. Thank God for wood and coal. That's how we heat here.

That said, haven't been ice fishing since..... 1981 I think? I was 10. Now I have much gray in my goatee and 40 summers I have seen since then. Been a minute, but then again, I really don't care to be out on a windy sheet of ice anymore. My friend Arthur-Itis doesn't like it much....

 

I am teetering on the horns of decision here..... It's easy enough to feed the darters and cyprinids flake and bloodworms, but my NLE is extremely fussy. He eats only fry and bloodworms, but I can't get enough fry for him daily from the river (time and effort +season changes), and feeding him enough bloodworms would overfeed the tank, and he doesn't care for live nightcrawlers or redworms. I am thinking on rehoming him and focusing only on darters and cyprinids. Easier, cleaner and cheaper to feed that way. I also really do like darters. Once a sunfish gets big enough, they require a LOT more food and overfeeding the tank isn't good. I need to stick on keeping fish that I can easily feed with a universally accepted food.

 

As for the Japanese trapdoor snails, mine stick (literally) to the driftwood. My 29 gallon hasn't been up long enough to develop algae (hope it doesn't) and they have primarily stayed on the wood. So far they're doing good, but they for some odd reason are extremely non-vocal when hungry.... My river snails have done well except for the darters. Have / had lots of juvenile river snails and one solitary adult. That single adult has been through h*** and back, survived and reproduced all by itself. Must have been 50 baby snails, but it looks like I am down to about 15 or so, and yes, they have been active in eating the algae. But I had a bad cyanobacteria and hair algae problem a few months back because of : overfeeding, using creek water that had a bad cyanobacteria problem that I didn't see, no crays and not doing water changes frequently. The gravel was literally covered with that blue-green slime and the rocks had 3" hair growing from them. Within a week of adding the crays and slightly adjusting feeding, the cyano and hair algae were gone. The crays ate ALL of it. My rocks and substrate were barren.

 

Did you pull your JTDS from the tank and put him terrestrial, or is it in a bucket with water and water-type plants? Don't think these snails can live out of water very long.

 

In any case, I will take a peek at your new vid.

 

The Grumpy Old Man.






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