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I.D on South Carolina creek fish


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#1 KalebRinehart

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 02:57 PM

Caught these fish in Rocky creek near Great Falls,SC. There were lots of them in the creek and a big school where I caught these two. c7a1de6922581cc7e11ab00b4b459825.jpg70da2b6711ad6f23a36dc27e048e8b52.jpg

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#2 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 03:43 PM

Hybopsis amblops? On the first maybe?


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#3 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 03:53 PM

Guess amblops is not in your range.


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#4 KalebRinehart

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 04:40 PM

I'm not familiar with scientific names sorry

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#5 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 07:41 PM

Matt is sort of right... you do have a local Hybopsis... probably rosy face chub?

 

The second one looks like a Cyprinella species to me...over in SC I might guess White Fin Shiner?


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#6 gerald

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 09:36 PM

I'll guess Spottail shiner (Notropis hudsonius) for #1 and Whitefin shiner (Cyprinella nivea) for #2.  You'll get used to scientific names too if you spend time around here.  Those names can be really helpful when you're not sure of an ID, because they tell you what other species are closely related.  For example the common name "shiner" applies to a HUGE number of minnow species, but the genus Cyprinella (including your whitefin shiner) is just one small group of shiners.  We can tell from the shape and scale pattern that one is a Cyprinella - so then it's a matter of picking out which Cyprinella, instaed of having to pick through ALL the other other shiners.


Gerald Pottern
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Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#7 Josh Blaylock

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 11:49 AM

The second one looks like a Cyprinella species to me...over in SC I might guess White Fin Shiner?

 

I'd go with Cyprinella too


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#8 KalebRinehart

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 11:54 AM

Thanks guys, I have tropical fish and I know a few scientific names, but haven't really looked at the natives yet. But like you said I'll learn!

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#9 Dustin

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 03:17 PM

Sorry, I'm late to this but I agree with Gerald, spottail shiner and whitefin shiner.  Nice fish.  


Dustin Smith
At the convergence of the Broad, Saluda and Congaree
Lexington, SC


#10 NateTessler13

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 04:00 PM

Matt D., I was with you at first.  When I see that fish, I think Hybopsis, but as Gerald and Dustin pointed out, that fish is likely Notropis hudsonius.  It's been a while since I've seen those East Coast N. hudsonius, but man, they sure do look a lot different than the Great Lakes variety.  So much so, that at first glance I thought they were in a different Genus.


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#11 KalebRinehart

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:19 PM

The first one is kinda shaded I have another one of the same fish but in the sun, do you think that may help even more?

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#12 KalebRinehart

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:21 PM

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#13 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:43 PM

Those need to not be not hudsonius. I know how different yours are, but it is too different.


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#14 Uland

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 06:04 PM

Ha! I remember the look I gave Fritz at the Carolina convention when he called that weird looking thing (that came from a small stream) N. hudsonius. I think I told him he was WRONG which is pretty amusing since he literally wrote the book. Good times.  


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#15 Matt DeLaVega

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 06:53 PM

Enough people agree that these are different species, that someone has had to have done the work and proven that they are in fact the same species, right? Is there a paper somewhere? Too busy chopping up various Etheostoma? Anyone? Bueller?


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#16 fritz

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 07:58 PM

Thanks Uland!  I remember the look. Surprisingly as far as I know no on has looked at the midwest vs east coat  hudsonius genetically.  It's ripe to be done



#17 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 09:34 PM

Brian Zimmerman is trying to get one of his students to take a look... The interesting point is that these Atlantic Slope ones that y'all think are so weird are the "true" N. hudsonius... since they were from a type locality in the Hudson River in NY.  If the Great Lakes thing is not N. hudsonius, then it is just laying out there waiting for someone to properly describe it!


Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#18 smbass

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:59 AM

Yep Michael is right, I have done a little initial investigating into this and have some specimens in the OSU collection from the Hudson and further up the east coast and they all look similar. Definitely the Great Lakes one is the unnamed fish. I don't know if this will go anywhere or not but have put it in the head of a student so we will see. I'm not much of a taxonomist but this just seems so obvious and has been bugging me for a while.


Brian J. Zimmerman

Gambier, Ohio - Kokosing River Drainage


#19 KalebRinehart

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 08:41 PM

After doing a little research, I think it could be a swallowtail shiner. What do yall the think?

#20 Dustin

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 07:47 AM

If we are still talking about the first fish then it is a spottail. Swallowtails don't get that big and would have a purplish sheen this time of year among other differences.

Dustin Smith
At the convergence of the Broad, Saluda and Congaree
Lexington, SC





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