22 replies to this topic

[wilchl02]

 Hi,

 

I just joined today. I've had tropical fish for many years, so I'm not new to fish keeping, just new to native fish keeping. I have a 29 gallon tank that is not up and running now. I was going to sell it, but I'm getting the bug for native fish. I like minnows and darters.

 

My two questions are: what is the best substrate, gravel or sand? I have an Aquaclear 70 power filter. Will that be enough filtration?

 

Thanks.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I think gravel holds too much waste. If I want a gravel looking tank, I add sand to fill in the voids. I'm not a fan of vacuuming. I am sure others have different ideas, and if it it is a planted tank, you may want to do things very differently. I have heard a lot about kitty litter for that?

[Michael Wolfe]

Both work well in my opinion.  Sand is better for some species that seem to oly thrive by picking at it or sifting it.  But you can certainly start a small shiner tank with either.

 

Please fill in your location information (just general stuff like watershed and state) so that we know what fish might be near you.

[Josh Blaylock]

Basically, keeping MOST natives (shiners/darters) are about the same as community tropical fish, except no heater needed.  Usually, room temp is fine.  So, you can apply what you know from tropicals to natives and you'll probably be fine.

[wilchl02]

I am from northeast Wisconsin. I have my home cool in the winter. The room temp is 66. Is that too cool?

[Josh Blaylock]

I am from northeast Wisconsin. I have my home cool in the winter. The room temp is 66. Is that too cool?

 

No.  The fish survive much colder outside.

[Matt DeLaVega]

Honestly that is a great temperature. Most people here would love for their tanks to drop to 66 over the winter. If you shorten the photo period as well during that time and then increase it as your house warms up, you may get some spawning activity and spawning colors.

[Josh Blaylock]

Concerning substrate.  I do both.  My stream tank was 100% gravel, however, I've slowly been adding local sand from time to time, but I'm still probably 90% gravel.

 

In my Coosa Bass tank, I have a really nice mixture of gravel/sand and I love the way it looks.

 

 

I'd suggest taking a few 5gal buckets to your local creek and scoop out some of the gravel/sand and use that.  Buy a cheap kitchen strainer, that will help.

[Moontanman]

Concerning substrate.  I do both.  My stream tank was 100% gravel, however, I've slowly been adding local sand from time to time, but I'm still probably 90% gravel.

 

In my Coosa Bass tank, I have a really nice mixture of gravel/sand and I love the way it looks.

 

 

I'd suggest taking a few 5gal buckets to your local creek and scoop out some of the gravel/sand and use that.  Buy a cheap kitchen strainer, that will help.

 

 

That is a good looking tank, nice mix of sand and gravel, I usually use sand, black sand when I can afford it. Black sand makes the fishes color much more intense. I once bought a couple hundred pounds of crushed flint filter sand, it was very natural looking. The flint is not expensive but shipping it is very bad. 

 

To the OP, a 29 is a good size for darters and minnows, the Aquaclear 70 power filter should do the trick, if you use sand I would be careful with the placement of the intake. sucking sand into the filter is a bad thing! 

 

I've been thinking about Garnet sand, anyone else use this stuff? 

 

http://www.redflint.com/garnet.htm

[Josh Blaylock]

 

 

To the OP, a 29 is a good size for darters and minnows, the Aquaclear 70 power filter should do the trick, if you use sand I would be careful with the placement of the intake. sucking sand into the filter is a bad thing! 

 

 

If you go with sand and that kind of power filter, maybe use a sponge over the intake to keep sand out of the impeller.  Also, with that model, I'd suggest pulling out the carbon layer and adding more bio-media.

[Moontanman]

 

 

If you go with sand and that kind of power filter, maybe use a sponge over the intake to keep sand out of the impeller.  Also, with that model, I'd suggest pulling out the carbon layer and adding more bio-media.

 

 

I do use a sponge prefilter, great minds think alike! 

[wilchl02]

If I get sand and gravel out of the creek, wouldn't it be full of parasites?

[Matt DeLaVega]

If I get sand and gravel out of the creek, wouldn't it be full of parasites?

Nothing your fish from the same creek do not already harbor and are resistant to. Also parasites are more into to the fish themselves than they are gravel that holds no food for them. Granted there may be some, but fish actually survive just fine in streams.

[Moontanman]

If I get sand and gravel out of the creek, wouldn't it be full of parasites?

 

 

When I first started getting rocks and sand from the ocean I was told it would be full of parasites but now live rock and sand is the gold standard. I wouldn't worry about it as long as the stream you get the substrate from is relatively unpolluted.  

[Josh Blaylock]

I get rocks/sand from local creeks all the time, never had an issue.

[Michael Wolfe]

I've talked to MDLV he says you got all kinds of issues... maybe your tank has not?

[Josh Blaylock]

I've talked to MDLV he says you got all kinds of issues... maybe your tank has not?

 

Ok, I should have been more specific, yeah, I've had plenty of tank issues but never had an issue with using local sand/gravel.  My Coosa Bass tank is all local and I've had ZERO issues with it.

[Matt DeLaVega]

I said nothing! This is Michael dishing out a deserved dose of your own medicine Forrest.

[truecrimson]

I know this topic is several months old, but do you guys who gather local substrate material treat it in any way before introducing it to your aquarium?  What are the dangers of introducing native substrate into a tank?

 

The reason I ask is that I watched several youtube videos and they insisted on the need to treat it.  They boiled, baked, or poured boiling water on, or used a bleach solution on everything from sand and gravel, to rocks, to driftwood.  One guy even dripped muratic acid on rocks to test their suitability for aquarium use.

[littlen]

If you scroll up, previous posters have mentioned  they use (live) sand straight from the creek with no prior treatment.  Furthermore, you get the added benefit of adding nitrifying bacteria to your tank.  This can be especially beneficial if you're setting up a new tank.

I think your interwebs search came back with some overly concerned fish-keepers.  Again, as mentioned above, the native fish you're going to be keeping in the tank with said sand/gravel will not be affected by any little creepers living in the substrate.  ....Other than maybe a leach, or possibly a tiny dragonfly nymph that will grow and consume the souls of everything within a 30 mile radius.  

 

I use native substrates, but let them dry thoroughly before use.  No baking.  No chemicals.  Just my preference.